KQM | Genshin Impact - spawn-aura-tanking

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJan 28, 2021 2:22 AM

@Aevean Leeow Important things to note: - Check the TCL and the other opened tickets for duplicates - Upload your evidence in imgur / youtube - Use the template below for your submission. - Type $close when ready for review.

Theory/Finding/Bug: Evidence: Significance:

Aevean LeeowJan 28, 2021 2:22 AM

Theory: To tank one hit from an enemy of ∞ level in overworld, without damage reduction eg XQ, certain comps/etc will excel for each damage type. Evidence: Damage reduction from DEF is DEF/(DEF + 5 * enemyLevel + 500). This is 0 when enemyLevel = ∞. Thus DEF is negligible and the 'Tank' builds for shield%, RES%, and HP. Viable artifacts are 2-4Miracle, 2Bolide, and 2TS/2LW. Choices have tradeoffs (eg Miracle is 4* and thus trades HP for RES). Shield characters simply max shield scaling stats. Zhong A2 +25% shield. A4 Diona decreases the enemy atk by 10%, multiplying effective HP by 10/9. C4 Ning +10% element RES. However, Zhong+Ning lose 15% RES from Canopy, meaning only one should be run. Diona, the 2nd best transferable raw Shield behind Zhong, can run Ning, and is superior when element RES% is limited (dendro). Pyro/Cryo run Xinyan/Diona due to 2.5x bonus on their shield. Razor has +80% RES but his BiS Shield C1 Beidou is small, and RES caps at 140%. Thus Beidou is BiS Electro Tank/Shield. Each viable combination of artis/comp/etc is compared to find these conclusions in this spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KZicv_Ww7VQKyhl1uvtxJTT0x3Gb-WPOYAxjD3yaUMY/edit#gid=477783156 Significance:

Why of course, this is incredibly significant and changes everything. In terms of things to build, Diona is a BiS char on every comp. Electro is the cheapest, as Beidou is both Tank and Shield, but is the most specialized. In general, Jean/Summit Shaper is used in 7/8 comps, while Zhong is used in 5/8 comps. If MHY told you to pick an damage type to tank the most damage from a level ∞ enemy without damage reduction, the tier list is Electro > Geo > Pyro > Cryo > Hydro=Anemo > Dendro > Phys In 1.3, Hu Tao>Jean, and geo rework. Geo is likely nerfed into HydrAnemo tier. Phys buffed, but likely still under Dendro. Razor > Beidou as well. The Geo "buffs" are likely a huge nerf to the element as a whole, scroll down for 1.3(edited)

ROCK SOLID oo ga booga gesnhin

Infinity 1.3 - XIAO DIONA HALAL?,DIONA HARAM? Enemy Level,Tank,Shieldbot,Support1,Support2,Weapon,Arti,Main, Sub,EHP ,Diona Halal?,4/5* arti choice?,Enemy Level,Tank,Shieldbot,Support1,Support2 Electro (Razor),Infinity,Razor,Zhongli,Geo,Diona,unforged,TS, Bolide,(3, 25),830224.145,922471.2722,El...

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJan 28, 2021 2:23 AM

Ticket Closed by @Aevean Leeow

Artesians, deathJan 28, 2021 2:26 AM

idk if you can open it tho

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJan 28, 2021 2:26 AM

Ticket Opened by @Artesians, death

Artesians, deathJan 28, 2021 2:29 AM

The Geo "buffs" are likely a huge nerf to the element as a whole

is this to shielding/tanking for infinite level enemies?

(edited)

Aevean LeeowJan 28, 2021 2:30 AM

i was informed geo was the "defensive" element

yet its absorption is going from 2.5x to 1.5x for geo damage

it is a geo nerf and a hydro/anemo/phys and potentially a dendro buff if his shield > diona shield for dendro

because dendro doesnt have a elemental potion, c4 ning is much more valuable

Artesians, deathJan 28, 2021 2:31 AM

lmfao, and does this have any application outside of infinite level enemies, or is this just a pure hypothetical calc that you've been torturing yourself over

Aevean LeeowJan 28, 2021 2:36 AM

this is by far much less torture than my original plans

which was to find when u change chars/weapons/artis depending on enemy level and it gets really gross when u have mixed subs with mixed * artifacts

calculating for infinite level enemies is really simple since DEF is worthless

Yes this has an incredibly vast application outside infinite level enemies

In the event that a new enemy is created that ignores damage reduction and ALSO sets your DEF to 0, these same conclusions apply.

My dad works at MHY and he told me that they were gonna do one of the two.

in DEF/(DEF + 5 * enemyLevel + 500), when DEF 0 the reduction is also 0 regardless of enemyLevel

Thus, the applications are incredibly extensive. Because this means it is applicable to any enemy that sets both damage reduction and DEF to 0, regardless of their level.

This means that enemy can have his level approach infinity and it is still valid.

Therefore there are literally infinite applications outside the case of level = infinity, because there are an infinite amount of positive integers (on a more serious note, its just limit testing)(edited)

buff rat | diona (denmax)Jan 30, 2021 3:15 AM

Aevean LeeowJan 31, 2021 3:40 AM

$close

Cola SenamiJan 31, 2021 3:40 AM

$close

Aevean LeeowFeb 1, 2021 2:59 AM

take 2

$close

%close pls

$close

Artesians, deathFeb 1, 2021 6:21 AM

Cola SenamiFeb 1, 2021 12:12 PM

$close

lmao

bot is ded

manually moved to for review now

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTFeb 1, 2021 12:12 PM

Ticket Closed by @Cola Senami

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Cola SenamiFeb 1, 2021 12:12 PM

fixed

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTFeb 4, 2021 2:02 AM

Ticket Opened by @Hail | Ayaka Waiting Room

buff rat | diona (denmax)Feb 19, 2021 2:37 PM

Just to confirm, you already want to close this entry, yes?

Aevean LeeowFeb 19, 2021 5:14 PM

oh not yet

i asked hail to reopen it cuz 1.3 and stuff, i couldnt reopen myself cuz i couldnt type in this channel previously for some reason

probably gonna wait for hotao

buff rat | diona (denmax)Feb 27, 2021 3:15 PM

Obligatory weekly questioning if you're still interested in this ticket

. Just to check if you're still alive Since we be waiting for Hu Tao. How many days or weeks do you think after Hu Tao release will you start delving into this again?

Aevean LeeowMar 13, 2021 9:36 PM

ive not too much free time on my hand so dunno, but ehh probably ill finish this before 1.4. if my two durability shitpost calculation channels are taking up too much space tbh u could delete one or merge them or smth, since at their heart they both are about impractical theoretical minmaxed tanking(edited)

lol wait 1.4 is march 17 ? thats kind of fucked up dunno then

Aevean LeeowMar 13, 2021 9:44 PM

hahaha wait this is slightly less impractical than before since these theoretical lv infinity enemies that ignore DR, basically have the same properties as the damage dealt by spawning auras as described in that other submission so thats kind of poggers

Aevean LeeowMar 17, 2021 4:42 AM

Update: More Significance to these already earth-shattering, mind-bending calculations, due to the discovery of spawning aura mechanics. Essentially, they ignore Damage Reduction and DEF, which is identical in execution to the previously hypothesized enemies that ignore DR and have a level of infinity, rendering DEF useless. For this reason, atk% debuffs on enemies will also be ignored in calculations. This introduces slightly more practicality to these calculations, though the practicality of this work has already approached infinity so it makes little difference. More information here: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/818832862555799582/818835129484181524 Thus, the question posed is no longer how much damage can you tank from a lv infinity enemy without DR. It is, how much damage can you tank from a spawning aura in one hit? In the first half of the 1.3 update, the Geo rework meant that geo shields would become stronger for non-Geo elements, and weaker against Geo. The implications of this were that while Geo tanking ability became noticably worse, some other elements benefitted greatly. Thanks to Zhongli's new shield totally eclipsing Beidou's C1 shield, Razor became the best Electro tank by far. Due to the new nonspecificity of Geo shields, Geo joined the Hydro and Anemo group, being 72.36% of its former self.

In the second half of the 1.3 update, the release of Hu Tao means that her C6 immunity to getting oneshot must also be banned, as it allows her to tank any single hit. However, her state afterwards where she gains +200% RES means she powercreeps every single other tank. Note that the RES cap seems to have been removed, though it is unclear whether it was during Xiao or Hu Tao banner's time period. Furthermore, Hu Tao also has the highest base HP in the game, though this is less significant than her C6 providing +200% RES. Note that as a result, Electro is no longer the undisputed king of the element you can tank the most of a single hit from a spawning aura. Pyro is now 1st, with Cryo a bit behind at 2nd, with Electro at 3rd. The other placements relative to each other remain unchanged. Hu Tao's excessive amount of RES means that she faces diminishing returns on RES. Pyro has the advantage of having a dedicated non Zhongli shield (Xinyan), and so does Cryo, with a bigger shield (Diona) as well. Both Electro and Pyro also enjoy their 2set which confers 40% RES. Though Pyro does not have the largest shield, its 40% RES 2set allows it to slightly pull ahead of Cryo, and Cryo is more significantly ahead of Electro. A larger gap also exists between Electro and the rest, due to Electro's 40% RES 2set.

Also note that Dendro and Physical have been massively buffed, as it was difficult to acquire RES% for them. Hu Tao has significantly closed the previous gap between these two elements and the rest due to her universal 200% RES buff. Previously, the only source of PHYS RES% was the Protective Canopy Resonance, and the only source of Dendro RES was the Protective Canopy Resonance as well as the Tiny Miracle artifact set. The spreadsheet is also updated with the change compared to the previous game update, as a multiplier, in %, for each element and version update. Physical tanking got many times better thanks to Hu Tao. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KZicv_Ww7VQKyhl1uvtxJTT0x3Gb-WPOYAxjD3yaUMY/edit#gid=477783156 The new tier list is Pyro > Cryo > Electro > Geo = Hydro = Anemo > Dendro > Physical.(edited)

ROCK SOLID oo ga booga gesnhin

GRAPH venti,venti,tartaglia,tartaglia,zhongli,zhongli,albedo,albedo,xiao,xiao,hu tao,hu tao,669558.8359 09/28/2020,11/10/2020,11/11/2020,11/30/2020,12/01/2020,12/22/2020,12/23/2020,2/2/2021,02/03/2021,03/01/2021,03/02/2021,04/27/2021,598265.7912 Electro,584959.0953,584959.0953,669558.8359,669558...

also, i suppose it would be more accurate to rename this channel to spawn-aura-tanking or spawning-aura-tanking

laxApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

$transcribe #spawn-aura-tanking

$transcribe spawn-aura-tanking

@INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETS what have i done wrong

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

.$transcript (channel name)

is the command

laxApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

-.-

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

sorry

laxApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

lol dw

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

everytime

(edited)

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

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Aevean Leeow#1362

Ticket Owner

@Aevean Leeow

Ticket Name

spawn aura tanking

Channel

#spawn-aura-tanking

Panel Name

Library Submissions

Direct Transcript

Users in transcript

@Yuehai Ticketing Secretary @Aevean Leeow @Artesians, death @buff rat | diona (denmax) @Cola Senami @lax @INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETS

laxApr 14, 2021 2:57 PM

pogu

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 14, 2021 2:58 PM

wait

@Aevean Leeow is this ticket ready?

laxApr 14, 2021 2:58 PM

its been over a month

almost*

a month

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 14, 2021 2:59 PM

you can dl the above transcript and repost ticket

whenever you feel like continuing

if its not

laxApr 14, 2021 2:59 PM

oh ok

just ping one of us if ur done

we'll come back here

Aevean LeeowApr 14, 2021 3:05 PM

well its done for 1.0 to 1.4 but(edited)

1.5 is coming with millelith set so

dunno, can this ever be "ready" until genshin stops updating ?

or should i make a new ticket for every patch then lmao

: )

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 15, 2021 11:38 PM

not sure how I feel about putting this in projects

Aevean LeeowApr 16, 2021 12:54 AM

dont worry ill close it when genshin shuts down or i get too bored, doesnt need to be a project

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 18, 2021 6:46 AM

You can pursue that investigation and expand on to this when the time comes. You can limit it to what we have available right now. In fact, even if you're not done and TotM gets released, you could still decide to limit it to what we have before 1.5 and that shouldn't put your submission any less valuable

IIRC this was already delayed back in 1.3 because of Who Toe. I think the only thing holding the submission of this ticket is the releasing of new content

(edited)

As a confirmation, your current doc is ready now, right? Ignorning TotM

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 1:14 PM

its ready for millelith assuming it doesnt stack

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 18, 2021 1:17 PM

Wow, 7% to 12% improvement

compared to hohoho toe patch

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 1:19 PM

yea zhongli diona shield is bigger from 2p millelith and then 30% more shield strength

least benefit is pyro since xinyan is def scaling

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 18, 2021 1:25 PM

oh, actually was gonna ask

arti doesn't mention tenacity so i thought you didn't change them for Cryo to Dendro

Oh wait nvm

I'm not thinking stright

You're adding TotM to the shieldbots

Any changes to Significance write-up, maybe? Or just change the 'tier list'(edited)

Carrier5by5Apr 18, 2021 3:20 PM

@Aevean Leeow Were two bugs about Miracle fixed? I did some tests in ver 1.1, and I found that there were two bugs related to the value of resistance.

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 3:22 PM

whats the bug

Carrier5by5Apr 18, 2021 3:22 PM

When the real resistance is above 100% and the character has 2/4-piece Miracle, Protective Canopy won't make effect on this character.

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 3:23 PM

unlucky

Carrier5by5Apr 18, 2021 3:24 PM

When the real resistance is above 100% and the character has 4-piece Miracle, the set effect of 4-piece Miracle won't make a effect on this character.

idk whether Mihoyo fixes that.

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 3:33 PM

hmm the 4 miracle builds reach 15 + 25 + 50 + 10 = 100 RES at most

(canopy potion miracle ning)

the efficacy of lw miracle or ts miracle might get changed by the bug though

if lw miracle or ts miracle runs with the ning wihout losing canopy its 110% res

Aevean LeeowApr 18, 2021 3:53 PM

okay

i can confirm that before hu tao era

the miracle bugs do not impact these findings

masterclass programmers mhy made it so that the optimal build doesnt use miracle above 100% RES

hu tao does though so

im gonna check miracle with razor and see

hopefully its bugged

because then we can assume its been bugged for all patches

if its fixed then its unknown when its fixed and if it was fixed by 1.3 latter half

just checked, its fixed for 1.4 at the least

if i had to assume though

it probably got fixed in time for hu tao idk

since she has the +200% RES thing i assume it got fixed along with the supposed 140% RES cap thing ?(edited)

the only way to check is to see if there is any footage of any whales doing meme miracle RES stacks on c6 hu tao screenshot

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 25, 2021 2:37 AM

This is basically done right now, right?

@Aevean Leeow

Aevean LeeowApr 25, 2021 2:50 AM

yea

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 25, 2021 2:53 AM

We'll close it now for further review then

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 25, 2021 2:53 AM

Ticket Closed by @buff rat | diona (denmax)

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INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 25, 2021 2:54 AM

approve

buff rat | diona (denmax)Apr 25, 2021 2:54 AM

approve 2: electric boogaloo

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 25, 2021 6:33 AM

moving to ready for publishing

can't move for some reason, can someone else do it

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 25, 2021 6:34 AM

I can't move it either

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 6:30 AM

throwing this into fluff i think

INVEST₼CLOSEYOURFUCKINGTICKETSApr 26, 2021 6:48 AM

yup

Midori | MAIDMay 1, 2021 12:16 AM

working on this , the rest of the entries are guide stuff

Midori | MAIDMay 1, 2021 12:39 AM

pr up

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMay 5, 2021 5:35 AM

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