KQM | Genshin Impact - how-to-get-double-swirls

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:42 PM

Also, the freeze has to occur with both Hydro and Cryo at 2U

which means that double swirl with hydro/cryo with a 1U anemo attack is only possible in Co-op(edited)

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:42 PM

Hmm

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:43 PM

because in single player, by the time you apply the second 2U attack, the first one has probably already decayed too far below 2U

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:46 PM

1u Hydro -> 2u Cryo -> Freeze -> 1u Hydro -> 2u Anemo -> Cryo Swirl

2u Hydro -> 2u Cryo -> Freeze -> 1u Hydro -> 2u Anemo -> Hydro+Cryo Swirl

Did we figure out why 2u Anemo doesn't double Swirl in the first example

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:47 PM

are you applying the second 1U hydro with the same character you used to apply the first

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:47 PM

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:47 PM

hmm

do characters share ICD on elemental application across a team

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:48 PM

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:49 PM

ok idk then

let me think about it a bit

what might be happening is that when you apply 1U Hydro - 2U Cryo, the entire hydro is consumed but there's still cryo left over, which then consumes the additional 1U hydro applied, preventing a double swirl from occurring

but, if you apply 2U hydro - 2U cryo, there's no cryo left over, which doesn't prevent the additional 1U hydro from being applied

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:49 PM

Also I genrally use a Swirl Hydro for the 2nd example to start with since I don't have Childe and Mona's Q would be a pain to work with, so the first Hydro is whatever Swirl is, like 2.35u? I forget. But it should be the same

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:51 PM

According to this theory, if you do 1U Hydro - 2U Cryo - 2U Hydro - 2U anemo, then a double swirl should occur

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:51 PM

Hmm

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:51 PM

in practice it's hard tho because childe's E trigger shatters and mona's burst takes a long time

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:51 PM

I could do that with Swirl though

1u Barb, 2u Kaeya, Swirl Hydro onto Frozen enemy

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:52 PM

true

so swirl hydro with sucrose, then use jean/venti to swirl the enemy with both auras

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:52 PM

Yea

Is Venti's Q 1u and Sucrose Q 2u?

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:53 PM

idk what venti's Q is

sucrose Q is 1U

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:53 PM

Just trying to figure out why in previous tests using Venti Q I didn't get double Swirl hmm

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 3:53 PM

according to TCL venti q is 2U

TerrapinApr 22, 2021 3:55 PM

Hmm I'll have to retest with that too then

As you'd want to have ways to consistently double swirl with his Q

and then, why is Electro-charged different

gimmeabreakApr 22, 2021 3:58 PM

so uh, re freeze gauge

it doesn't appear to be in the same units as the currently documented stuff, it's weirder than that

gimmeabreakApr 22, 2021 4:11 PM

i think this is a little inaccurate even if the end result is the same. it's not that swirl has to reduce the frozen. is that when anemo reacts with frozen, the gauge of anemo itself also gets reduced and there has to be sufficient gauge remaining for it to react with a second

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 4:11 PM

yeah, I'll re-word it if this gets published(edited)

gimmeabreakApr 22, 2021 4:19 PM

the differentiation is important when you consider that for anemo is a 2:1 reaction. meaning for every 1 gauge of w/e reacted with

you lose 2 of anemo

where everything kinda got messed up when i tested last night is that the freeze gauge itself is just wtf

so if you have 50 units of hydro + 50 unit of cryo producing freeze, you don't get 50 units of freeze gauge.. u get some weird ass number: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/827639673694191656/834627569634639912 that follows some weird decay

which makes it kinda hard to predict exactly how many units of anemo is consumed when it reacts with freeze... possibly leading to some of the weird results we're seeing where we expect double swirl but it's not happening

to make it more confusing.. you get stuff like this: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/814367287041327154/834622998819635220 this feels like the reaction system is just full of spaghetti code

@Ayzel | high ping revolution if you're interested in taking a look or see some vids ping me in #unreleased-tc.. but ya i warn you there's some really weird stuff going on with freeze

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 22, 2021 4:20 PM

Ugh(edited)

Mihoyo why

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 4:47 AM

Hmm any tests I can do to help with this

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 6:11 AM

Venti's Q is 1u sadly

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 24, 2021 6:12 AM

how do you know

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 6:14 AM

I believe you misread it, and I was testing it trying to get double Swirls with his Q

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 24, 2021 6:36 AM

huh that's written wrong in the TCL then

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 6:39 AM

Where is it in the TCL? I have trouble finding these things lol

I just have this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uiJje5yqv7v2UKrWoBAgBMrHrrNemtkooo8JqAGJpP8/edit#gid=162614118

Elemental Gauges

Pyro/Electro/Hydro/Cryo Source: https://ngabbs.com/read.php?tid=23836189&_ff=650&rand=196 Type of Gauge for All Elemental Sources (1A/2B/4C),1A: 9.5s 2B: 12.0s 4C: 17.0s,For explanation of 1A/2B/4C:

wait the TCL just links to his as far as I see

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 7:09 AM

hm yeah it is 2u in tcl

https://library.keqingmains.com/characters/anemo/venti

Venti

One of the many bards of Mondstadt, who freely wanders the city's streets and alleys.

that doesn't sound right. I'll confirm it's 1U and update it.

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 7:09 AM

oh that's where it is

Yeah from my limited tests it appeared to act as if it was 1u, in regards to what we expect from Freeze and double Swirls

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 7:11 AM

By principle it's better to test gauge amount against known mechanics rather than what we are trying to figure out to eliminate uncontrolled variable's. Venti's gauge is well known though I'll look at the old test vids and update accordingly.

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 7:12 AM

Yeah for sure, I'm pointing that out to say not to trust my tests, they weren't done specifically with testing 1u/2u in mind but to try and establish a way to utilize double Swirls with Venti's Q

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 7:52 AM

Honestly I am unconvinced that double swirl really has too much impact in practical situations. Most of the time there will be more than one enemy and you can just swirl both elements that way.(edited)

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 7:53 AM

With Electro-charged Swirling a nearby Hydro doesn't do AoE though

same with Freeze, though it seems more difficult to do repeatedly

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 7:57 AM

If you have two enemies, one with EC and one without an aura, swirling that should be equivalent in damage to swirling two enemies where one hsa hydro and one has electro. I believe

For low enemy counts I guess it matters but idk. I guess we don't understand impactful it is to ec comp's damage yet.

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 7:58 AM

Yeah, but not equivalent to Swirling two+ enemies with EC

Already from what we've found out has changed how I would form teams

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:01 AM

swirling 3+ enemies with EC should be equivalent to swirling 3, enemies 2 with electro and 1 with hydro(edited)

as you have a max of two swirl damage instances per element for swirl and hydro does none

so max of two electro numbers per target

it really only matters for low enemy counts

Or I suppose in the case that they are All ECed and you have to make sure to swirl both elements, in which the gauge mechanics would matter

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:04 AM

3 enemies with EC = 3 Swirls per enemy, 9 total. 2 enemies with Electro and 1 Enemy with Hydro = 2 Swirls per enemy + 1 Hydro Swirl, 7 total.

Also, knowing that Beidou prevents Sucrose from being able to consistently double Swirl with Hydro and thus contribute to less Electro-charged procs ( from Sucrose ) changes how you would build her in such a team.

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:08 AM

ah that's true I didn't count the extra to the target itself

Beidou should not prevent sucrose from being able to double swirl at all

her contribution is in her Q arcs

not her Q initial or E

Hell here's a question for you: we often test higher unit hydro auras by swilring them to another unit. If Beidou's higher unit applications prevent double swirling, wouldn't sucrose herself prevent it the same way?

I really don't think we know too much about how double swirl impacts taser team damage output right now.

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:09 AM

That was for Freeze, which I believe works differently

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:09 AM

So far tests have shown that the principal extends to EC as well from what I have seen

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:10 AM

Sucrose can't double Swirl off of Freeze at all, as far as I know

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:10 AM

wait what do you mean 'that'

Yes she can, if you have hidden hydro

I thought you read my VV ticket?

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:11 AM

How do I replicate that

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:12 AM

like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQmPheaLGXE

Faranight 0001

VV on Hidden Hydro 2x Swirl

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:13 AM

This is Jean, who has 2u

All of Sucrose is 1u

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:15 AM

You're saying it wouldn't be any different if we used all 1U there? Gimmeabreak did a test with that and double swirled as well I can try to find it

but I can't answer your question if I don't know what it is,

That was for Freeze, which I believe works differently

this line confused me

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:16 AM

Needing 2u to double Swirl

Whereas 1u Anemo can double Swirl Electro-charged

https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/834419900104835122/834500207315648513

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:16 AM

1u anemo cannot always swirl electro-charged.

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:17 AM

right, but I haven't seen anywhere where 1u Anemo can double Swirl Freeze

This is a back to back test with 1u vs 2u

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:19 AM

I have yet to see a test of all 1U

I can go test it though give me a bit

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:38 AM

Here you go

https://youtu.be/CD7nwTqRkM8

Faranight 0001

1U Anemo 2x Swirl on Frozen

but still not entirely sure how this is relevant to the above discussion

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:40 AM

Interesting, so you must apply 1u Hydro + 1u Cryo, then apply 1u Hydro, apply 1u Anemo, and then 1u Anemo again in a short time frame

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:42 AM

Yes once again in agreement with the hypothesis of this ticket:

In order for a double swirl to occur, the anemo gauge applied to the enemy must be greater than one of the two gauges currently applied to the target.

You must apply the 1u anemo first to reduce the gauges

as anemo only subtracts .5U per 1U anemo

and the duration for which both auras last on frozen enemies is a lot shorter than that of EC so you can't wait for them to naturally expire to below .5U

TerrapinApr 24, 2021 8:43 AM

I'm not sure if there's any way to do this for practical use though hmm.

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 8:44 AM

Unlikely

gimmeabreakApr 24, 2021 1:05 PM

Prob a little more accurate to say the anemo gauge must be at least 2x greater than the remaining gauge of either element (but currently unproven which element takes precedence first)

Hence 1u anemo swirling is difficult. Prob only doable on ec? Freeze timing would be difficult. Esp as we don’t really know what the gauge of freeze are

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 1:05 PM

I literally did it like one line out of view :p

gimmeabreakApr 24, 2021 1:06 PM

Well I didn’t mean it’s not doable

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 1:06 PM

You said prob only doable on ec

gimmeabreakApr 24, 2021 1:06 PM

I just meant I can’t for instance tell you if you wait xx seconds and apply 1u anemo you will get it

Sorry bad choice of wording lol

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 24, 2021 1:08 PM

You are right about the quote, I pulled that from the ticket entry. I am partial to the wording

In order for a double swirl to occur, the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than one of the two gauges currently applied to the target.

myself

@Ayzel | high ping revolution may want to reword the finding to something like that once you are around

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 25, 2021 9:03 AM

I'll edit this to be more accurate. In the interest of closing tickets, I'll finish this ticket tomorrow; since you're also pretty knowledgeable about how swirls work, can you review the ticket after I close it?

TerrapinApr 25, 2021 9:08 AM

Hmm should I pop my test videos onto youtube

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 25, 2021 9:08 AM

would be nice

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 25, 2021 3:51 PM

If you think we have enough data to back up the hypothesis that sounds good.

Idk if there are any other gauge amounts we should try to further back it up or not

TerrapinApr 25, 2021 11:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BpqvSHGy5o

Terraflop

SwirlTest37 38 39

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 6:12 AM

New Writeup: Finding: on Electro-Charged and Frozen targets with underlying hydro (where both the frozen icon and a hydro icon show up), it is possible to get a "double swirl," where both elements (Electro and Hydro in the EC case, or Cryo and Hydro in the Frozen case) are both swirled. This can debuff the enemy's resistance to both elements. In order for a double swirl to occur, the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than the electro gauge (in the case of EC) or the hydro gauge (in Frozen/Hydro). If two gauges are on the target, and anemo is not stronger than one of the two, the swirl will be Electro (for EC) and hydro (for Freeze). Evidence: Gauge reduction caused by Anemo must be greater than the hydro gauge (in the case where there is both a Hydro and Freeze aura present) or the electro aura (in the case of electro-charged) in for a double swirl to occur 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCemVj_O5U (double swirl) 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/YPq9SXFVDYY (single swirl) 1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 1U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sICRFyBBI0E&ab_channel=Ayzel (single swirl) 1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxmc6zIQH4&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=Ayzel (double swirl; the EC reaction reduces the electro gauge low enough for the double swirl to occur) 1U Hydro, 4U Electro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSfwME7zZ2o (single swirl) If the anemo gauge reduction isn't greater, the swirl will be Electro(EC)/Hydro(Freeze) 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/YPq9SXFVDYY (hydro swirl) 2U Electro, 2U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/vNOgRVMTLWg (electro swirl)(edited)

Ayzel

2U Hydro 2U Cryo 1U Hydro 2U Anemo

Ayzel

2U Cryo, 2U Hydro, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo

Ayzel

1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 1U Anemo

Ayzel

1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 2U Anemo

Faranight 0001

4U Electro into 1U Hydro EC 2U Anemo electroswirl

Closing this here. I'm certain about the first part of the write-up, but if anyone has evidence that disproves the second part of the write-up (i.e. which swirl occurs when you hit an enemy with two gauges; I've only ever been able to get single Electro swirls when attacking enemies with EC, no matter the gauge strength, and I've only ever been able to get single hydro swirls against frozen enemies.), feel free to share.

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 26, 2021 6:12 AM

Ticket Closed by @Ayzel | high ping revolution

TerrapinApr 26, 2021 6:19 AM

I've also never had a single Hydro Swirl off of an enemy with EC. However, you can get a single Cryo Swirl off of Frozen enemies. This is the normal scenario with 1u Anemo application without either re-applying Hydro after Freeze, or using a 2u Hydro initially before Cryo.(edited)

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 12:02 PM

In order for a double swirl to occur, the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than one of the two gauges on the target. If two gauges are on the target, and anemo is not stronger than one of the two, the swirl will be Electro (for EC) and hydro (for Freeze).

I don't actually think this is the case. I believe that the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than the electro gauge (for EC). I cannot be sure if this extends to Freeze in that it may require the anemo hit to be greater than the hydro gauge, because I cannot cleanly test against a 1U cryo 2U hydro frozen hydro aura. If a 2U anemo source swirls only once in the case of `1U hydro -> 1U cryo -> 2U hydro` then we could extend this to applying to freeze as well, and know that the anemo reduction has to be greater than the hydro gauge specifically. If it does double swirl then we know that for freeze the anemo reduction just has to be greater than one of the two gauges. Here's my test for 4U electro and 1U hydro only causing an electro swirl with 2U anemo @Ayzel | high ping revolution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSfwME7zZ2o

Faranight 0001

4U Electro into 1U Hydro EC 2U Anemo electroswirl

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 26, 2021 12:02 PM

Ticket Opened by @Faranight | too deep in swirl

gimmeabreakApr 26, 2021 12:58 PM

If two gauges are on the target, and anemo is not stronger than one of the two, the swirl will be Electro (for EC) and hydro (for Freeze). wasn't there video in the swirl guide showing that you can have swirl for freeze that triggers just cryo? i know i had a couple vids in #unreleased-tc as well

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 1:42 PM

I don't think I ever saw one that actually had the boss aura display to confirm that the hydro aura was persisting simultaneously to the cryo aura when the anemo was applied

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 2:20 PM

This is a good point, I’ll change it

Agreed with Faranight, I’ve never seen a situation where both icons were present, and a cryo swirl occurred

gimmeabreakApr 26, 2021 2:22 PM

er i didnt mean double icon. i mean you can swirl cryo if anemo gauge is not sufficient

it's not always hydro i think

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 2:30 PM

Swirl on normal freeze should always yield cryo, yes

however if there is a hydro aura coexisting it will always either cause double swirl or only hydro

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 2:37 PM

or at least I have yet to see a test indicating otherwise

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 2:39 PM

do you have any video evidence that the anemo gauge reduction must be greater than the remaining hydro in case of hydro/frozen aura?

I think that, given that we've seen that anemo gauge reduction must be greater than electro in case of EC and the two seem to work similarly, we can infer that it's true, but I'd still like evidence for it

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 2:40 PM

yeah the one I have with 1U anemo causing a double swirl on hidden hydro shows that as well, otherwise the first anemo hit would have double swirled.

because I had to reduce it first with 1U anemo and then apply another 1U anemo to get the double swirl(edited)

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 2:41 PM

I think what I'm looking for is a case where the anemo reduction is greater than the freeze aura, but less than the hydro aura

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 2:42 PM

ah yes

I don't have that as per my comment above:

I cannot be sure if this extends to Freeze in that it may require the anemo hit to be greater than the hydro gauge, because I cannot cleanly test against a 1U cryo 2U hydro frozen hydro aura. If a 2U anemo source swirls only once in the case of 1U hydro -> 1U cryo -> 2U hydro then we could extend this to applying to freeze as well, and know that the anemo reduction has to be greater than the hydro gauge specifically. If it does double swirl then we know that for freeze the anemo reduction just has to be greater than one of the two gauges.

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 2:43 PM

rip

yeah the easiest way of applying 2U hydro also shatters lmao

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 2:44 PM

God it'd be so nice if barb's E initial was 2U hydro or something

gimmeabreakApr 26, 2021 3:03 PM

honestly i'd advise caution on making any sort of firm conclusion on swirl + frozen with or without "additional" aura (i use additional instead of underlying to differentiate between reapplying an element vs potentially what's there to begin with)

i seen some really strange stuff in the logs both in terms of the gauge units for freeze, and also reactions involving freeze

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 3:05 PM

yeah I bet, shit's jank af. If we can get a rudimentary understanding that explains most practical situations that's much better than leaving it at "shit's jank" though.

gimmeabreakApr 26, 2021 3:09 PM

i think a safe generic conclusion to make is if you apply additional hydro or cryo to freeze, you can trigger double swirl by applying anemo as long as the gauge of the anemo is greater than both the remaining freeze and remaining additional element's gauge

it's rather vague though, or you can make a more specific conclusion but toss in caveats

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 3:11 PM

we've yet to see any of these caveats afaik

gimmeabreakApr 26, 2021 3:11 PM

a couple of things i think are not proven: 1. with an additional aura is applied, what's the order of reaction when anemo is applied on top? is it order of operations (i.e. last in first out) or is it greatest gauge 2. what is the actual gauge value of freeze. this is significant because if anemo is reacted against freeze first then we need to know the numerical quantity of freeze to be able to know for certain whether or not a reaction will result in double swirl 3. are there any actual underlying elements (not additional) and how does the game handle them

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 3:11 PM

if you want you can ping us in a locked channel if they rely on [redacted] stuff

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 3:20 PM

I'm not sure what you're asking in a lot of those questions. 1. are you talking about which swirl comes first? We've shown here that in the case of single swirl in EC it does not depend on reaction order or greatest gauge for instance, but will always single swirl electro if it only swirls one. We have yet to see a case in which only hydro is swirled. 2. The ticket is trying to show that the possibility of double swirl is only dependent on the strength of the hydro gauge, not the gauge of freeze. While complications caused from the freeze gauge not being understood would be cause for concern we have still yet to see a case in which such complications exist. I believe the ticket has sufficiently shown that anemo is reacted against hydro first. 3. I am not sure how you are differentiating underlying elements from additional elements

TerrapinApr 26, 2021 3:22 PM

Hmm well, the only way Hydro is Swirled off of a Freeze is if Hydro is applied afterwards right

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 5:01 PM

You can only trigger double swirl by applying hydro to a frozen target

And the hydro must actually show up on the target

For example, if I apply 1U Hydro, 2U Cryo, then 1U hydro, the hydro icon won’t show up because the remaining cryo that wasn’t used in the freeze reaction is eating up the last 1U hydro

But if I applied 2U hydro then 2U cryo, then 1U hydro, the 1U hydro would show up because there was no leftover cryo

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 6:08 PM

yes(edited)

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 9:34 PM

I'm closing this ticket for now since I don't think there's anything more to add.

@Faranight | too deep in swirl do you think that anything else should be added to the write-up? We honestly don't really have a way of testing the hydro/freeze priority when swirling against frozen targets, but I was thinking of just including in the Pull Requestion that it hasn't been tested, but based on the fact that single swirls are hydro and based on the results of EC, it is likely that the anemo gauge reduction must be greater than the hydro gauge, not the frozen one.

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 26, 2021 9:37 PM

I agree. Just note it as a possible future test

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 26, 2021 9:38 PM

sounds good, closing this ticket here then.

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 26, 2021 9:38 PM

Ticket Closed by @Ayzel | high ping revolution

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JonahFarc | Git ArchonApr 26, 2021 9:49 PM

@Ayzel | high ping revolution just for completion sake is that New Writeup still good and solid for all the details?

TerrapinApr 27, 2021 2:23 PM

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/814367287041327154/836607795263701012/JeanQDoubleCryoSwirl.mp4

gimmeabreakApr 27, 2021 2:24 PM

shouldn't this one be categorized as an exception of sort to this ticket?

TerrapinApr 27, 2021 2:24 PM

yea lol

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 27, 2021 2:55 PM

Ticket Opened by @xf3 | close ur tickets

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 27, 2021 2:57 PM

not a double swirl

only one "swirl" text

don't know why there are two cryo numbers tho

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 27, 2021 2:58 PM

because freeze gauge is high and jean q hits twice very quickly initially

I have no idea why those two were able to talk in a close ticket but yeah this ticket literally says double swirl is only possible when there is a hidden hydro aura alongside cryo which we see very clearly is not the case in the test.

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 27, 2021 3:01 PM

closing again

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 27, 2021 3:02 PM

Ticket Closed by @Ayzel | high ping revolution

Faranight | too deep in swirlApr 27, 2021 3:38 PM

In order for a double swirl to occur, the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than one of the two gauges on the target.

This sentence in the Finding section should also be edited to reflect the new rule presented at the top of evidence (that it must be greater than specifically hydro for freeze and electro for EC). For the 1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 2U Anemo test showing a double swirl, it should be explained why it causes a double swirl as 2U anemo reduction is not enough to fully consume 2 units of electro by default, it must rely on the EC tick reduction. Would be good to include a note that a future test of 1U freeze (somehow), 2U hydro, 2U anemo is technically necessary to say for certain that the anemo reduction must be greater than the hydro aura specifically, rather than any one of the gauges present. However EC works this way and there is no known current method to test the above, so the behavior is currently believed to extend to freeze. I believe it would be productive to include the test of 1U anemo double swirling the hidden hydro aura as it shows for certain that double swirl is not simply locked behind 2U anemo applications (like a previous theory suggested). Perhaps you should also include the explanation you gave here as it seems easy for people to overlook this: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/834597054301863965/836285446056050759 even though it's more of fundamentals of hidden hydro. Those are the small edits I can think of @Ayzel | high ping revolution

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 27, 2021 3:38 PM

Ticket Opened by @Faranight | too deep in swirl

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 27, 2021 3:42 PM

in class rn but I'll make these changes as soon as I get out

Ayzel | high ping revolutionApr 30, 2021 4:40 AM

shit the message is too long

ok here's a new new writeup split into two parts(edited)

New New Writeup: Finding: on Electro-Charged and Frozen targets with underlying hydro (where both the frozen icon and a hydro icon show up), it is possible to get a "double swirl," where both elements (Electro and Hydro in the EC case, or Cryo and Hydro in the Frozen case) are both swirled. This can debuff the enemy's resistance to both elements. In order for a double swirl to occur, the gauge reduction from the anemo hit must be greater than the electro gauge (in the case of EC) or the hydro gauge (in Frozen/Hydro). If two gauges are on the target, and anemo is not stronger than one of the two, the swirl will be Electro (for EC) and hydro (for Freeze). Evidence: Gauge reduction caused by Anemo must be greater than the hydro gauge (in the case where there is both a Hydro and Freeze aura present) or the electro aura (in the case of electro-charged) in for a double swirl to occur 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCemVj_O5U (double swirl) 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/YPq9SXFVDYY (single swirl) 1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 1U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sICRFyBBI0E&ab_channel=Ayzel (single swirl) 1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxmc6zIQH4&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=Ayzel (double swirl; the EC reaction reduces the electro gauge low enough for the double swirl to occur) 1U Hydro, 4U Electro, 2U Anemo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSfwME7zZ2o (single swirl) A future test of 1U freeze, 2U hydro, 2U anemo is technically necessary to say for certain that the anemo reduction must be greater than the hydro aura in Freeze/Hydro, rather than any one of the gauges present. However, EC works this way and there is no known current method to test the above, so the behavior is currently believed to extend to freeze.(edited)

Ayzel

2U Hydro 2U Cryo 1U Hydro 2U Anemo

Ayzel

2U Cryo, 2U Hydro, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo

Ayzel

1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 1U Anemo

Ayzel

1U Hydro, 2U Electro, 2U Anemo

Faranight 0001

4U Electro into 1U Hydro EC 2U Anemo electroswirl

If the anemo gauge reduction isn't greater, the swirl will be Electro(EC)/Hydro(Freeze) 2U Hydro, 2U Cryo, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/YPq9SXFVDYY (hydro swirl) 2U Electro, 2U Hydro, 1U Anemo: https://youtu.be/vNOgRVMTLWg (electro swirl)(edited)

Ayzel

2U Cryo, 2U Hydro, 1U Hydro, 1U Anemo

Ayzel

2U Electro, 2U Hydro, 1U Anemo

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTApr 30, 2021 4:40 AM

Ticket Closed by @Ayzel | high ping revolution

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buff rat | diona (denmax)May 1, 2021 6:47 AM

I already verified the EC and Frozen before but that was a bit of time ago. What's there to verify now?

Moving to publishing

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMay 5, 2021 6:27 AM

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