Server: KQM | Genshin Impact (763583452762734592) Channel: tree-chopping-memory (838678429137633311) Messages: 200 wiremash#0433 (137414081819836416) Mol | anemo fan#3280 (563936279792844811) Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank#5462 (306566993711202305) Yuehai Ticketing Secretary#4843 (557628352828014614) Ayzel#7399 (276182497145126912) denmax#9293 (140866779894251520) Artesians「KAZUHA SLASH」と読め。#0002 (185216727351558145) KQM | Genshin Impact - tree-chopping-memory
KQM | Genshin Impact
tree-chopping-memory
200 messages
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:10 PM
I don't know, I have a whole lot of stuff that's not part of the tier list in mine like the icd and elemental skill interaction(edited)
they're related, but not the main topic
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:11 PM
yeah i think it should be separate because it might illustrate weird stuff about other environmental effects
e.g. can dandelions be swirled from outside the arrow range we are looking at
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:11 PM
that would be interesting
yeah, if you're gonna do that a separate ticket will make more sense
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:12 PM
the enemy thing @Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank found alone is probably worth something
because it suggests that enemies might enable specific elemental reactions with the environment
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:13 PM
now I'm wondering if lightning will interact with trees...(edited)
mark them like arrows do, maybe?(edited)
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:13 PM
i'm not sure, my guess is "no"
since it's elemental like fire
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:13 PM
yup, makes sense
another minor thing
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:13 PM
the only sources that mark seem to be physical
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:13 PM
you know those videos of people shooting arrows across the map and teleporting across?(edited)
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:14 PM
including the attack aluminum showed
yeah i have
seen those
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:14 PM
what if, you teleported to the tree you're about to hit?
would that count as being in range?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:14 PM
good question
i think i will put that in the other ticket because it's a range question
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:14 PM
or maybe even a co-op partner standing where the arrow's going to land
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:15 PM
not sure how we resolve the other ticket but
the finding that n1 e e won't hit 2nd e is like, we need to look at that separately
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:15 PM
I don't know if I want to
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:15 PM
because something is timing out that object as an E target in a way that enemies, for example, are not
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:15 PM
it creeps me out
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:15 PM
lol
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:18 PM
I'm going back to looking at albedo's smooth attack combos, where it's safe
it's probably the most puzzling thing here, honestly
though the arrow one...
I wonder if the arrows apply the same tag as the enemies
or if it's just a coincidence
and the tags have different properties?
but what would they be...?(edited)
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:18 PM
I think N1 E E times out? Diluc N1 E E can get 3 wood
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
my theory is: there is a trigger that gives items, trees are treated as a box. in the case of the memory they are coded as 3 separate boxes stacked into the same object. 1) if an attack hits, it checks for tree, generates an item (if the source is a valid source of damage) and respawns the box. 2) the arrows fail to generate an item (invalid source) but respawn the box, 3) box spawns are only 1 at a time to prevent players from having to hold 3 spawns in game memory for a new tree.
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
oh you're right, I just tested bennett's N1 E but waited really long before pressing E
nvm, mystery solved
the house isn't haunted
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
i tried waiting reaaaaallly long
it didn't work
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
ok
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
but
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
we're back to the spooky
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
i might have missed
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:19 PM
no wait we're talking about the same thing
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:20 PM
well no in general waiting seems to make E more likely to hit again
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:20 PM
it failed just like N1 E E
wait what
stop scaring me
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:20 PM
aluminum said it hit but i haven't seen that in a while idk i am confused now
most of my experience has been 2 e never works. i think i felt like it had before but now i can't get it to occur at all
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:20 PM
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
maybe diluc is different
his e is very unique
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
yeah he might be
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
wait till we find out the reliability of his E is tied to the number of characters in your computer's account username
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
oh yeah that looks normal
@Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank try waiting til his e goes on cooldown
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
bennett's E with const 4 also hits twice
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
and then another e
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:21 PM
I'll try that too
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:22 PM
right i think the game is coded to spawn a new box if a normal attack hits it, and they just didn't bother to make it respawn the tree as an object for elemental skills because they thought nobody would use them to harvest since they couldn't hit them in the first place
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:22 PM
no work, but I'm now wondering if his E extends that timer
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:22 PM
ok
i don't have diluc but
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:22 PM
wait is it not supposed to time out?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:23 PM
try this
can you space the E combo out enough to hit the tree 4 times, e.g. N1, e e e, with all gaps over 30 frames
so you could theoretically harvest 4
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:23 PM
will try
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:24 PM
if diluc can harvest 4 then i think something makes sense
with bennett e, you can get 2 wood if you hit within the same e skill, but cannot hit the tree twice in a row if you let it go to cooldown
well
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:24 PM
?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:24 PM
actually since bennet c4 can harvest twice i think i can try my own version of the test
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:24 PM
no, he does not harvest 4, I double-checked in my inventory
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
lmao i have no idea
can you do N1 e e without the ult and get it?
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
don't think so
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
it definitely feels like a bug
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
this whole thing is a bug
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
but I thought that's because the time is too long
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:25 PM
if you string diluc out does his e start missing the tree entirely?
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:26 PM
yup, works
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:26 PM
yeah i think the timeout thing is very believable
actually
maybe the arrows DONT work differently
the range is a joke
tis' the time to get there that is timing out
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:27 PM
yup, strung him really far out and his 2nd E went through the tree
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:27 PM
oh great we are finally getting somewhere with this
i'll check arrows
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:27 PM
it just times out before you manage to reach the tree
right?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:28 PM
yeah that's my thinking
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:28 PM
why would there be a timer in the first place?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:29 PM
the e skill availability cooldown is shorter than bennett E with double anemo, but longer than bennett E during ult
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:29 PM
what is that timer doing?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:29 PM
so what's that, between 2s and 3.8?
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:29 PM
we're not even supposed to be hitting the tree with skills
so why is there a timer for it?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:30 PM
my guess
is uhh
they want to move trees from "interactable" to "memory only"
so the loop stays, quite intensely
as i say above, even entering a domain will not reset a specific tree
or travelling across the mam
map*
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:30 PM
I have an alternative conjecture: All trees are updated and "reset" at scheduled intervals, except for memory which is still kept with the player
hope that makes sense
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:30 PM
i think they coexist, i haven't checked daily reset but all trees reset on login
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:30 PM
I have very little programming knowledge so forgive my wonky terminology
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:31 PM
so it's not periodic, it's just every time you log in
you can log out and log back in and hit the same tree, 6 wood
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:31 PM
all trees reset or just the memory?
logging out resets the memory for the player
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:31 PM
the memory contains the only depleted trees in your world
any tree you hit which is not in the 10 memory will generate 3 wood(edited)
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:31 PM
yeah I understand that
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:32 PM
since the memory is reset when you log in, you can hit any tree and get 3 wood. i might be misunderstanding you
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:33 PM
I meant, the trees reset at periodic intervals and lose their modified property that enables them to be hit by elemental skills which is independent of the memory which is tied to the player
they coexist, like you said
and on separate systems
is my current conjecture
I think I'm making sense but I'm not sure
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:33 PM
yes
i agree
that's what i was saying about arrows
there's some other state of interactability for players in general
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:33 PM
because what I'm suggesting is that the trees don't time out after a certain timing after they've been hit
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
the actual harvest does not time out, no, but the E skill thing in particular is crazy
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
which is perhaps why we've been getting not-so-consistent results
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
i think, however, that arrows perform the exact same way
except they can hit stuff that is "unmarked" in memory
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
right, I'm seeing that now
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
they probably didn't have any use to make elemental skills be able to hit stuff like, really distant birds
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:34 PM
I don't think they follow a global timer then
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:35 PM
so arrows might be special
in terms of how they "trigger" things
enemies are probably special too so that they can interact with their own environment
but elemental skills generally have a short range
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:35 PM
so after something is hit it turns into an "active" object? which times out after a while and goes back to its inactive state
maaybe?
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:36 PM
so the devs probably just said we'll not bother to let players try to interact with stuff 100m away with diluc's e, we'll just make it so some stuff is activated for that if it's already involved with the player
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:36 PM
hmm I see(edited)
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:36 PM
yeah, i think enemies are always activated
there's no E cooldown on enemies
well i want to test now because i feel crazy
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:36 PM
I'm going to leave you to it because I have to analyse someone's albedo data
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:36 PM
lol
ya
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
I love it
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
thank you all for the help with this, i think i'm going to sum this up and close this ticket
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
wish I had him just for his attack animations
hey, you helped at least as much
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
i think we can say "players who wish to use elemental skills or arrows for tree harvesting should do so at risk to their sanity"
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
no AR55 player has that "sanity" thing anyway
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
yeah i think the e skill thing is worth investigating for real
lmao
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:37 PM
I think they'll be willing
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:38 PM
yeah
albedo is great, shame his aa isn't really that strong
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:38 PM
I mean I have keqing just because I like her design
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:38 PM
his E is fun as a ranged attack as well, you can hit aerial targets with it HuTaokek
but he's not super meta
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:38 PM
but my keqing is stuck at level 1
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
afaik
i look forward to the actually more useful lumberjack tier list lmao
this insane test turned out to be way more interesting than i thought
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
actually more useful? :o(edited)
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
i think for normal players knowing who is the best to spam and manually time is better than trying to plan a tree loop
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
it's mostly there
love1
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
good luck
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:39 PM
only 5 characters left
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:40 PM
i'm going to record the overload thing to demonstrate the utter insanity here and close this
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:40 PM
still need a rosaria contributor though
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:40 PM
don't have rosaria yet so can't help with that unfortunately
wiremashMay 4, 2021 6:40 PM
yup, and I'll see you on the other side
LETSDIMMAGOOOO1
by other side I mean in another ticket
but you get what I mean
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:40 PM
yeah lol
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 6:50 PM
Tree Chopping Memory Mechanics Finding: The game can only remember the 10 most recently-struck trees at a time. After the 11th tree is hit, the 1st tree's state is wiped from the memory and can be harvested again. However, if a previously harvested tree is struck again BEFORE this, it will be moved back into the sequence as the most recently updated item. Therefore, a loop in the following order where each number represents a specific tree will generate no wood on the second partial loop: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11. This is because trees 2-11 have become the recently updated set in memory, and only 1 has been dropped and reverted to "harvestable" state. In a typical 11 tree loop, hitting tree 1 again would provide wood, then remove the most recent last tree (tree 2 in this case) from memory. Partial harvests also count the same as full harvest or re-harvest. Evidence: Partial harvest evidence & 11 tree loop Hitting tree 2 before 1 on second loop proves minimum loop is 11, only the 11th tree is reset, and updating mechanics. Significance: There is no quick method to reset tree resources beyond hitting an 11th tree and removing the 10th-previously-harvested tree from the memory. Aside from logging out of the game, these mechanics are key to quick farming of a targeted type of tree. Fast traveling has no effect, nor does entering a domain, nor does waiting several minutes. To keep farming trees efficiently, the loop must avoid all 10 trees already in memory. Adding a buffer of an additional 1 or 2 trees into the loop can help prevent accidentally updating depleted trees in memory and wasting time. Additionally, if your loop contains mixed tree types, you can exploit the partial harvest finding to farm one type faster by only striking the less-desired trees one time each before moving on.(edited)
Mol | anemo fanMay 4, 2021 7:25 PM
In collaboration with <@!137414081819836416> and @Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank after they found some elemental skill and arrow interactions, we dove into some additional testing that produced some extremely interesting results. These additional findings may be of use to others exploring environmental interactions, but they have little ultimate practical connection to tree memory and harvesting loops. The additional findings can be summarized as follows: 1) Arrows, enemy attacks, and Xinyan's Elemental Burst can "mark" trees in some way that enables the trees to be harvested by elemental skills for a short window, but they have no interaction with tree memory alone. So far, the only things we have ever observed marking in this way are physical damage type. Elemental arrows fail. 2) If a marked tree is struck by a small subset of elemental skills used by "valid" weapon type characters within this window, the tree CAN be harvested and affects memory in the usual way. 3) Elemental skills cannot serve as their own marks, but multiple elemental skill hits within a given mark window are possible - Bennett cannot double harvest a tree with E unless is standing on his ult, and Diluc can fail to harvest with E if he delays his final E combo too long. 4) Harvesting via skills on marked trees is so inconsistent and strange it should probably be regarded as a bug; for example, sometimes it is possible to harvest wood via Beidou or Razor Overloading burning grass, while Xinyan's Elemental Burst will never harvest wood. 5) However, the behavior is strange enough on its own to justify further investigation into player and environment interactions. Marking trees for elemental skill hits is an independent game system and probably deserves to be explored in another ticket. For example, a mitachurl striking a tree allows Bennett's E to strike the tree and harvest wood.
love1
Evidence of the preceding can be seen by Xinyan marking a tree, knocking off all the fruit, and Bennett harvesting it all without the use of normal attacks: https://imgur.com/a/IeRAzUC
2021 05 04 1423 Xinyan burst marks trees
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMay 4, 2021 7:25 PM
Ticket Closed by @Mol | anemo fan
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Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 4, 2021 7:40 PM
AyzelMay 5, 2021 10:59 PM
I think that tree marking mechanics needs to be its own ticket. I'll verify the first part of this, but I'm not going to verify the second part because it seems that more testing needs to be done to flesh out a theory of exactly what is happening.
denmaxMay 7, 2021 1:17 AM
Verified tree memory mechanics
denmaxMay 7, 2021 1:34 AM
With regards to tree 'marking'. I'm assuming you mean this as the tree having a visual and audio cue of it getting hit, but not generating any wood Confirming with #1. Uncharged/Non-elemental arrows and Xinyan's Burst (only the on-cast portion) does not cut the tree but do give a visual and audio cue. We can assume its due to the fact that these are physical damage attacks. Does not affect memory Other points are probably out of my league for now. I'll verify further when I have the time
wiremashMay 7, 2021 4:46 AM
we're discussing this in more detail at #marking-non-enemies-for-skill-hits at the moment. mol can also help clarify what marking means (mark, tag, whatever) over in the other ticket
Artesians「KAZUHA SLASH」と読め。May 22, 2021 1:38 AM
Merge with #marking-non-enemies-for-skill-hits
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 7, 2021 4:01 AM
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