KQM | Genshin Impact - sucrose-burst-absorption

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 6, 2021 5:55 PM

The conclusion is pinned so you can refer that

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 5:57 PM

I think we should give terms for stuff ngl

I've legit called everything an object but I differentiate them with their properties

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:09 PM

Is there any thing we can do to infuse cryo in an isolated space by using characters?

Like is it possible by a character alone, other than bunny shenanigans or stuff like that(edited)

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:10 PM

1st Category: Interactable Infusable/Infused Objects (IIOs for short), these include: Barron Bunny, Ores, Icicles, Ice Slopes ect. Properties: Can either be damaged, have their shield damaged, may have hitstun, can interact with (like melting the slopes) ect. Note: the only a Cryo aura can be absorbed by an Anemo skill, but can hold others like Hydro [tested with crystalize while in water] 2nd Category: Uninteractable Infusable/Infused Objects (UIOs for short), these include: Elemental Charged shot arrows, Hydro/Cryo Abyss Mage Bubbles/Icicles in resurrection phase (for the most part), Guoba (could be debunked) Properties: cannot alter infusion of object, cannot be dealt damage, they have no shield, no hitstun, cannot interact with Note: the only auras that can be absorbed by an Anemo skill are Hydro,Pyro, Electro, cannot hold either elements as they are uninteractable 3rd Category: Transgressing Interactable Infusable/Infused Objects (TIIOs for short), these include: Electro Ores, Torches, Campfires, Cooking Pots ect. Properties: Cannot be damaged, do not have a shield, have hitstun, can interact with Note: initially, these objects transgress the rule of IIOs, as they can have a set aura (like how you can lit torches with Pyro), but other than their set aura, the only element that can be absorbed by an Anemo skill is Cryo [and their set aura of course](edited)

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:12 PM

This explains my question lol(edited)

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:14 PM

Yeah I made this so we can all be on the same page(edited)

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:16 PM

Now to find out how near Guoba has to be to start infusing

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:16 PM

on IIOs, do we know for sure hydro can't be absorbed into anemo bursts?(edited)

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:18 PM

yeah

in fact we were trying to apply hydro to barron bunny with childe

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:18 PM

you can't. you need rain or water pools

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:18 PM

and we realised that it was inconsistent, then I told EggsD that he's not hitting the bunny when it happened he was hitting the ult

and that's how the entire thing started

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:19 PM

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:20 PM

It's hard to measure the range, for general use just make sure it's near the center

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:20 PM

so what about things like camp fires?

Those can be interacted with but also infuse anemo Q

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:21 PM

oh yeah i forgot to make the exceptions category

and you are right, we don't know why

campfires, torches, electro ores

all can be interacted with but completely defy the rule

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:22 PM

Is there any strange interaction between sucrose Q and Mona E?

I do not mean infuse

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:22 PM

btw can you pin the message

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:22 PM

Bodies of water, burning grass, rain, icewall shields are some weird ones too

sure

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

Icewall shields?

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

a comprehensive list/categorization of objects would be nice to have eventually. Ambitious to do though

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

yeah like the ice shields from dragonspine

they carry cryo aura

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

Cryo constructs infuse with cryo

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:23 PM

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:24 PM

kinda like burning wood shields carry pyro

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:25 PM

basically. The cryo-only infusion rule for IIO's does not seem valid to me

Cryo is the only aura that characters can almost always apply to IIOs

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:25 PM

maybe break the category into IIOs that carry their own aura and ones that can be infused

hmm idk

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:26 PM

for example:

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:32 PM

What do campfires/torches/electro ores defy the rule?

Aren't they just objects that can have an aura, and any object with an aura causes absorption

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:33 PM

yeah but currently there's no classification for those in the above. Only objects that can be infused only with cryo. Which imo are different than the objects that have a persistent cryo aura by default (ice flowers).

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:35 PM

Is there anything that is an exception to what I described though

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:36 PM

Maybe if you consider a flaming flower and a collectible flaming flower different object types, which makes sense. Since the latter may be cryo infused

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:37 PM

maybe we just need to classify "object that can be infused" which causes absorption, and different objects only being able to infuse certain auras is an exception to the object itself, but not related to absorption mechanics(edited)

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:37 PM

how are they different tho?

can we not absorb off of a mist flower?

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:38 PM

was about to say this yeah. Not an exception to what you described, just a further classification

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:38 PM

Torch can be cryo infused I think. After removing the pyro and applying cryo(edited)

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:38 PM

There's a distinction to be made between objects that can only be infused with cryo for not understood reasons, vs objects that carry an innate aura

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

but you can then absorb cryo off of the torch if that's possible yea?

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

yeah

you can

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

Yep

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

so as far as absorption mechanics go, it's the same thing

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

Just tried

Dunno about campfire

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:39 PM

but, objects only being able to hold certain auras is separate from absorption

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:40 PM

yeah?

but we're talking about absorption

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:41 PM

I'm just trying to define a simple rule that can be stated about absorption

Then, objects can have all their own exceptions

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:42 PM

AMC E hold cryo swirl on torch

Lemme do it outside on dragonspine

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:43 PM

I still don't get your point, we do have a set a rules, IIOs can only have cryo and UIOs can only have pyro electro hydro and then I just put the exceptions

again it's even definitive, it's just for what we have for now

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:44 PM

IIOs can have hydro, you just can't apply that aura with character abilities

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:44 PM

yeah sorry I was talking about absorption

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:44 PM

Yeah, I just mean that for someone learning how absorption works, coming across the initial rule of what causes it is helpful

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:44 PM

you get the point

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:45 PM

I mean my clip absorbs hydro right?

well outside wet ground range

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:45 PM

we don't know why this rule exists, that's what we're trying to solve, but it almost seems impossible

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:45 PM

And then going into each object's property/exceptions as to why they can't fulfill the conditions for that rule

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:45 PM

it's a set of properties mihoyo set, they don't make sense

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 6:46 PM

Why? I dunno, if I were Mihoyo I'd make every skill AoE cause absorption, or at least make the ability an object itself you can apply an aura to

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:46 PM

we can't know

that's on mihoyos part

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:49 PM

Tried electro with Keqing E and hydro with Mona E. Both didn't get infused(edited)

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:50 PM

At the end of the day a classification has to be both useful and consistent to deserve use

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:51 PM

why do I feel like the second one got infused

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:51 PM

because it did

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:51 PM

So ideally a system like that wouldn't have a lot of exceptions

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:52 PM

It did

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:52 PM

so campfire is an IIO(edited)

no wait

that's a cooking pot

I feel dumb

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:52 PM

camp fire should be the same thing no?

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:52 PM

my brain turns off after 9am

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 6:52 PM

OwO. I'm dumb too

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:53 PM

not sure if they have any distinction other than a ui

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:53 PM

the problem with campfires and cooking pots they have IIO proporties

but they can be lit with pyro

and you can then infuse that

that's why they are exceptions

FaranightMay 6, 2021 6:55 PM

I feel like those types of exceptions should be included into the category for it to be a useful classification tbh

as it is I am not sure what the use for the current pinned categorization is. Would it see use outside of its initial creation?(edited)

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 6:57 PM

we're using it to categorise things that follow the rule set for now

it's better than confusing each other :/

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 6:58 PM

oh btw. If you want to have fun go around shattering these IIO's when it's raining

FaranightMay 6, 2021 7:00 PM

I would think more useful categories would be: Intractable Infusable objects - can be infused with an element. Either only cryo or another element/s Environmental Infused objects - Are only every infused with one element and are infused with it by default Uniteractable infused objects - same as pin

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:02 PM

muh brain just realised that when you turn off a fire it's because you're removing the gauge with a reaction

FaranightMay 6, 2021 7:02 PM

yeah they carry 1u

so 2 1u anemo/geo or 1u other element

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:06 PM

Freezing just the shield of a Geo Shield mitachurl.

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:06 PM

What's happening with the second one? xd

is it swirling back again to the E

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 7:06 PM

Doesn't that always happen?

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:07 PM

you can also only petrify the shield of the mitachurl with zhongli's Q, but I guess that's just because it's a separate object

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:08 PM

The portable cooking pot that you can craft reapplies Pyro to itself at intervals

If that's useful for a test

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:10 PM

wait

weren't we going to make a new ticket?

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:10 PM

For Guoba right

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:10 PM

Oh we're planning to clear up objects here too?

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:10 PM

I dunno

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:11 PM

I was only doing it because it's related to the absorption

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:12 PM

I honestly don't think they're too complicated. Absorption works on things that have auras

especially in relation to IIOs

IIOs are generally able to undergo other reactions too

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:12 PM

you can overload the grass just like EC or Freeze the water

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:12 PM

That's what I was saying yeah, for this ticket absorption rule seems simple, unless there's an exception I'm missing

Unless this ticket is also covering categorizing every single object's ability to hold which aura and why

Which to me isn't directly related to absorption mechanics

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:13 PM

my point exactly

object auras is it's own can of worms

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:14 PM

the reason we were doing this was to find anything else that can change the set of rules

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:14 PM

Guoba was interesting because he could've defied that rule, but if he infuses pyro each attack it would follow the rule

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:14 PM

for the absorption mechanics

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 7:15 PM

Yea

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:15 PM

the only reason we're researching objects is because we're trying to find something that breaks the rule

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:16 PM

doesn't make sense for anything to be able to though?

Guoba was probably the only outlier from the absorption standpoint

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:18 PM

idk how to answer to that at this point

onion head simpMay 6, 2021 7:25 PM

I feel so lost rn...

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:29 PM

There's a few moving parts here. There's the objects which can have auras (IIO), which will interact with a wide variety of reactions and sometimes hold different auras and can be absorbed. There's the things things that can't interact with elemental reactions to our knowledge, but can be absorbed (except when they're cryo for some reason) (UIO). And then there's absorption as a mechanic itself

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 8:23 PM

I wonder if you can pyro infuse baron if you put baron on burning grass, yeet it and check the swirl

(edited)

TerrapinMay 6, 2021 8:24 PM

lol

the problem there is Jean yeet applying 2u Anemo consuming the Pyro aura

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 6, 2021 8:26 PM

So you'd need a natural source of pyro too?

Or something similar to water?

Actually nvm. I'm too sleepy to think straight. I'll check again tom

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 8:42 PM

I don't think anyone's been able to put elements other than cryo and hydro on the bunny. Not even electro through EC.

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 6, 2021 10:26 PM

That's why I kind of put character intractable for cryo only rule and not environments. I've seen Bunny pull hydro shards when put in water with the steele

But as what characters can to the bunny, it's only cryo from what I've gone through

FaranightMay 6, 2021 10:50 PM

I'm still busy atm, but when I get a bit I will type up a conclusion and close this. If we want we can make new tickets for classifying the objects as it would be nice to have a full list

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 6, 2021 11:10 PM

denmaxMay 7, 2021 1:45 AM

If we're doing this approach, this ticket already falls outside the scope of Sucrose and her Burst absorption, correct?

@EggsD | Typo Arfhon what say you? considering this is your ticket. Because there's a huge overlap happening with #dandelion-elemental-application, <#839475466792599573>, and this particular ticket right now(edited)

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 7, 2021 1:50 AM

I was already suggesting split ticket so I'm in agreement

denmaxMay 7, 2021 1:52 AM

If you want, you can keep this ticket as is, just covering Sucrose (or infusions in general?). We can turn #dandelion-elemental-application (rename it) into the general ticket covering aura application on interactable objects, as summarized by Ntagama.(edited)

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 7, 2021 1:57 AM

I think that's the play. Honestly the sucrose absorption matter seem to be resolved mostly, fara is summarizing it so we will close it our own time. The dandelion application can be renamed the Object-elemental-application

EggsD | Typo ArfhonMay 7, 2021 2:07 AM

Also wow I just realized your buff ass rat diona

Jarringly horrifying yet interesting

denmaxMay 7, 2021 2:12 AM

@onion head simp @Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank @Zebin || Yae's Seat @Terrapin would it be alright to ask if all of you could tell me which resources or discussions is necessary to move to #dandelion-elemental-application with regards to the object elemental aura part of this ticket? Or is Ntagama's pinned comment (as shown here: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/839140280560255106/839927044019585056) the only necessary summary? I might also check with some of the videos and compile them (with credit) as proofs of the findings. Unless you guys want to do that yourselves

(edited)

onion head simpMay 7, 2021 8:40 AM

I'll probably edit the pinned message to add a 3rd category instead of ruling them out as exceptions

onion head simpMay 7, 2021 8:58 AM

Ok, I edited the pinned message, I'd like others to review it as well

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 7, 2021 1:35 PM

I think it's a reasonable description. Though if we're going to go through with collecting them all then we should do that in another ticket. Also I still don't see why the cryo conditional is there for IIO and TIIO.

onion head simpMay 7, 2021 1:38 PM

it's one of their properties

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 7, 2021 1:42 PM

Are you sure it's true?

Here I seem to absorb from an IIO that has a hydro Aura: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/839140280560255106/839935660772163594

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 7, 2021 1:57 PM

though now that I test it again, it does seem very inconsistent

yeah the absorption range seems particularly massive for bodies of water, and since it isn't consistent, the cryo reasoning makes sense here. Your description looks good to me

onion head simpMay 7, 2021 2:45 PM

that's weird I never saw that

well we were mostly testing with character abilities

onion head simpMay 7, 2021 3:09 PM

Anyway, I believe we should just close the ticket for now, we're on a mostly conclusive dead end related to the anemo skill absorption effects and continue the object talk in a new ticket

FaranightMay 7, 2021 9:27 PM

Finding: Charged arrows can cause elemental absorption by hitting the 'core' of applicable anemo abilities. This works for Pyro, Electro, Hydro, but not Cryo. The current working theory for elemental absorption is altered to the following. Anemo abilities that have absorption will always and can only absorb: - Cryo, hydro, pyro, and electro auras on enemies and players - Environmental objects that carry the above elements - Charged arrows excluding Cryo - Infused player-made objects Findings on the nature of environmental object infusion as well as player made object (Guoba, Baron bunny) infusion have been put forward in this ticket, however they will be addressed in subsequent entries instead. Evidence: Venti Pyro absorption: https://youtu.be/6pMIzWzh5fg Venti Electro absorption: https://youtu.be/aufmDrKW89U? Venti Hydro absorption: https://youtu.be/aWcEadXe2Z4 Venti failed Cryo absorption: https://youtu.be/CJ4asq8ubcY Sucrose Pyro absorption: https://youtu.be/IzIWkDpYHTg Sucrose Electro absorption: https://youtu.be/f2wxKQFurp8 Sucrose Hydro absorption: https://youtu.be/-eUD7O15fuU Sucrose failed Cryo absorption: https://youtu.be/ntH3tRuJSXc Significance: This finding - Expands understanding of elemental absorption. - Provides further evidence that Cryo is unique in its infusion mechanics. - Introduces a new method to control absorption that does not depend on enemies, which could be useful in situations where enemies carry an innate aura undesired for absorption (such as current 12-2-2)(edited)

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMay 7, 2021 9:28 PM

Ticket Closed by @Faranight

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FaranightMay 7, 2021 9:29 PM

If anyone involved wants edits to the above please ping/DM me and I can reopen or edit accordingly(edited)

Mono$INVEST₼C6KAEYAWAITINGROOMMay 8, 2021 12:05 AM

@Faranight Venti hydro evidence links to Venti electro

FaranightMay 8, 2021 12:06 AM

Oops

Mono$INVEST₼C6KAEYAWAITINGROOMMay 8, 2021 12:09 AM

Verified

Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 1:55 AM

Do we need evidence for AMC absorbing arrows?

FaranightMay 8, 2021 2:11 AM

I was going to handle AMC later becuase their E will need co-op tests anyway. That was my thinking at least, if someone wants to host the evidence i can put it in the submission

Mono$INVEST₼C6KAEYAWAITINGROOMMay 8, 2021 2:51 AM

I think the ticket has a good enough scale

its POSSIBLE to infuse with certain arrows

infusion zone for other things can be done in another ticket

Zebin || Yae's SeatMay 8, 2021 6:02 AM

That'd be good since I realized aiming at the wings is so much better than aiming at the center for Sucrose Q infusion

Also infusion range with guoba

denmaxMay 9, 2021 12:13 AM

Can use #dandelion-elemental-application or make a new ticket

FaranightMay 11, 2021 3:07 AM

Author list: EggsD, Ntagama, Aluminum, Terrapin, Kgbeast, Zebin

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 4, 2021 1:15 AM

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