and with that I think we've tested everything we know. I don't think there's any further way to explore these effects. I'll leave this ticket up for another day in case others want to chime in.
Mol | anemo fanMay 6, 2021 6:56 PM
After that, I'll summarize all the things here, link to all the evidence, and close.
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:39 PM
Bad trees get put in the air wiggler
I think anything that "perturbs" trees can mark it
Mol | anemo fanMay 6, 2021 7:43 PM
oh great idea
yeah ok then it's not phys, but shaking
we don't even have a class of damage that makes sense then lmao
but fair to say they gave "physical" damage interaction capability, but not elemental damage like infusion.
hmm
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:46 PM
well I just remembered Jean making shaking noises when pulling the trees. IDK about anyone else
maybe Xinyan E?
nope
Mol | anemo fanMay 6, 2021 7:53 PM
AMC
maybe
i'll check
no i don't think so
AMC tornado can
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 6, 2021 7:55 PM
and it marks trees I assume?
Mol | anemo fanMay 6, 2021 7:56 PM
yeah i just chopped one with bennett successfully, same deal
with the caveat that "all physical attacks seem to be able to shake a tree"
"but only some of them do not harvest"
i'll do one jean video too, credit you for that too, then upload to imgur and leave this open a bit longer (e.g. a day or two) if anyone else gets curious or has any ideas
is there any skill that can't harvest a marked tree
Mol | anemo fanMay 6, 2021 8:27 PM
In short summary before final write up, Genshin has 4 categories of tree hits.
1) Moves that will shake trees and make them available to skill hits.
2) Moves that can only harvest trees that have been shaken by another source in a very recent window.
3) Moves that both shake and harvest trees.
4) Moves that can do neither (almost all skills, catalyst attacks, and bursts)(edited)
I'd say the majority of skills cannot harvest
Bennett and XQ are the best example of E skills that do consistently
actually here's a good example of how strange the interaction is
i revised the text to make that clearer because i should clarify that most skills can't even do either thing
Mol | anemo fanMay 7, 2021 1:31 AM
for a while this afternoon i thought hitlag might be responsible for the tree behavior. whatever it is, some attacks have an interact value that shakes trees, while others don't. every source of physical damage does it, but almost no elemental skills or bursts do.
wiremashMay 7, 2021 4:05 AM
he cannot, but I'm not sure if it's because of him being an invalid weapon type or if it's because his E counts as an elemental-infused normal attack
like chongyun in ice circle or diluc after using burst(edited)
wiremashMay 7, 2021 4:17 AM
his burst (at least in ranged mode) does cause the tree to shake (no harvest), but only after marking it with an arrow
xingqiu's E orbital swords will "hit" the tree at regular intervals (probably applying hydro to it?) after it's been marked but will drop no wood
Mol | anemo fanMay 7, 2021 6:28 AM
if it has hydro you could probably crystallize it
i could try to check that but that would be yet anotherticket i think
Carrier5by5May 7, 2021 7:44 AM
interesting research(edited)
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Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 7, 2021 11:37 AM
These sorts of effects neither harvest nor re-mark the tree. Easiest way to test is with Mona E.
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Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 6:04 PM
I'm gonna close this up later today I think because it seems like we're not finding anything new and have nothing left to test. Summarizing now.
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:07 PM
yeah I think the working theory is in a good state. We can reliably predict/classify what will and won't mark and harvest a tree.
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:17 PM
yeah
your comments on off field and the weird sync with 0.5s ICD and harvesting window makes me think we should check
do you have a tree near water you were talking about? @Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank(edited)
i might try that a bit and see if i can get off field to happen with XL
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:19 PM
starfell lake should have some. I remember also using a tree near the energy amplifier dude location.
near stone gate
I actually think it might be that self-overload can't harvest trees, i.e. bennett burst vs burning grass
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:20 PM
ok cool
do you mind explaining the ICD 0.5s on overload a bit more here so i can think through a bit more how i think it's working in that context?(edited)
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:23 PM
oh it's just a limit on an enemy taking damage from overloads made by a character
the explosion and force still happen
just that for example, Amber may only deal one damaging overload to each enemy every 0.5 seconds
and the ICD is separate for the team members
so Amber and Bennett can both deal overload damage to an enemy both within 0.5 seconds of eac other
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:26 PM
damn
i think it is the same
well
you can swap and hit really fast
and get 2 wood
don't know if it's under 30 frames
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:29 PM
Since we know beidou overload on grass can harvest trees, then maybe self overload simply can't
I think the combat sim uses 20 frames for a swap. I don't know if that's accurate but if that's the case the window for sub 30 frames is very low
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:33 PM
i checked if the ICD was independent and it appears to be shared
did it twice back to back, idk how close to the sim that is but yeah
so we don't need to test off field harvesting probably'
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:33 PM
actually, for that matter, I'm not sure if beidou harvesting 2 woods is due to 2 overloads
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:34 PM
i feel like overload harvesting is a bug, it's so crazy
XL should be able to do it, but can't
at least from messing around
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:36 PM
wait really
I might know why
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:36 PM
couldn't get it to pop from gouba(edited)
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:36 PM
let me do a bit of Xiangling testing
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:36 PM
yeah if you can do it then that would be awesome
i don't play XL much so i couldn't do it right
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:40 PM
overload harvesting might be due to it being a radiative effect: i.e. turbo (before they hard removed it), lisa conductive, etc.
as in the triggering skill also has to be capable of harvesting in some capacity
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
it's not quite that because razor E can never harvest, but CAN overload harvest
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
hmm
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
the hold E
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
ah right I remember that
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
maybe i should try enabling it again
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:41 PM
maybe grass is special?
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:44 PM
i was wrong about xinyan my first test
because we didn't know about the short window
nope
however, maybe his E is coded as coming from him and XL's from Gouba?
so maybe you're on to something, just that "harvest" attribute is character specific, rather than skill specific?
well bennett q should be able to do it then(edited)
which it doesn't (just checked)
think i'm just going to call this one an evil bug
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:49 PM
here's the setup recorded at like 1 fps. Looks like XL can't harvest using guoba
Same setup as the one I used for Bennett Overload
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:51 PM
good test, i'm convinced she can't
it's really weird that "overload" is character specific in some way
might as well put that in the significance
writing up now, hope you can look at it once i'ts done
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Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 7:55 PM
actually for the 2 harvest for Beidou counter, it looks like the harvests must be coming from the overloads
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Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 7:56 PM
good check on the full counter
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:20 PM
@Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank does overload shake trees to you?
i just realized that when i was testing XL it shook the tree
beidou's don't do they?
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:20 PM
I think guoba might shake trees
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:21 PM
lol yeah... why...
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
like in the bennett overload clip, idk if the tree shook
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
yeah
did bennett harvest via overload? i don't think so
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
he did
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
ah
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
at the end of the clip
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:22 PM
i'm just going to put it down as crazy behavior
maybe someone will want to pick this stuff up
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:23 PM
it's a really annoying setup
since you need electrocharged ground
Can say "overload seems to be character and aura dependent" and leave it at that for now
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:23 PM
yeah
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:26 PM
if we ever want to figure out who does what that can be left for later
oh btw
marked trees can be harvested via infused attacks
so childe can solo farm trees
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:27 PM
mark then swipe?
arrow then E?
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:27 PM
yep
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:31 PM
i don't have childe so i can't get a video
taht's the most interesting one because his weapons aren't even real weapons
e.g. daggers
gonna test chongyun real quick for that infusion
chongyun can't lol
buggy af
giving up on exploring this anymore
Title:
Temporary Skill Targets: Enabling Unholy Harvesting Methods
Findings:
Attacks that shake untouched trees, including enemy attacks, can allow them to be harvested using a small number of Elemental Skills in a short window. We explored this to find several things.
-Shaking a tree marks it as a target for a wider variety of skills. Some attacks, like Mona's E, can only shake already-marked trees, and do nothing.
-All physical damage sources & an odd assortment of character skills (Jean's E, Kaeya's Q) can shake/mark
-Marks last a very short time
-Some skills and Overloads can harvest. Characters like Bennett and Xinqiu can harvest using E skills, while Razor can harvest with E only if he uses Overload.
Evidence:
Summary post with multiple videos here https://imgur.com/a/RnevAeW
Significance:
Attacks are not equal in terms player-environment interaction. Most skills can never harvest nor shake tress; some can shake trees, others can harvest directly, while others can harvest indirectly via Overloading burning grass. Most importantly for combat, damage sources appear to be treated differently depending on the character, attack, and reaction source. Overloading via E to harvest a marked tree works for Razor and Beidou, but not Xiangling or Fischl's elemental arrow. Overload seems to work on burning grass but not self-overloads. Dealing phys damage with Xinyan harvests using a Normal Attack, but only shakes during her Burst. More broadly, the game appears to be conserving resources by limiting the player's kit unless certain enabling actions are taken. After enabling these attacks, the game shuts them down after a short window. Enemies appear to be permanently enabled for all attacks, but the player must fight enemies within a specific area, otherwise they will teleport back and reset.(edited)
2021 05 06 Tree Marking
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:38 PM
To Note: some skills shake marked trees (with or without harvesting them). This does not re-mark them
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:45 PM
added a razor overload to the summary link above just for illustration of the insanity https://imgur.com/yNI55vr
confirmed, Mona's E will only shake marked trees and has no effect on them. Interesting.
edited above
added "untouched" to first line
i think i got a shake from neutral but it did not mark. weird.
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:47 PM
what skill?
I think the biggest significance of these alternate methods is when a Chongyun in co-op starts griefing you
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Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:49 PM
lol "Chongyun opens up new griefing opportunities by blocking harvesting through his E skill infusion"(edited)
Mona's E. It shakes bushes and such but it doesn't shake a tree unless it has been hit it seems. Strange. Size seems to play a factor too, because the little decorative trees in Monstadt seem never to shake.
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:49 PM
ah a lot of things shake bushes
that's a whole different issue
Mol | anemo fanMay 8, 2021 8:50 PM
yeah i think they must add some kind of value to it
not going to look into it
i think i'm going to close this now unless you can think of anything to add @Aluminum | Harbinger of Jank
Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 8, 2021 8:51 PM
LGTM
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Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTMay 8, 2021 8:51 PM
Ticket Closed by @Mol | anemo fan
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Aluminum | Harbinger of JankMay 9, 2021 3:00 PM
Anyways, wiremash in #lumberjack-tier-list found that the marking duration is approx 5 seconds, and that you can't re-mark a tree until the first mark expires. That also a reasonable explanation as to why skills that shake marked trees don't re-mark them.
Artesians「KAZUHA SLASH」と読め。May 22, 2021 1:25 AM
lmfao
Approved.
Need a +1
AyzelMay 22, 2021 1:27 AM
verified
tested this only with bow characters when y'all originally found out tho(edited)
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