KQM | Genshin Impact - weapon-gauge-theory

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM

so it was swinging back and forth a bit

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM

yeah, which is what I initially thought then was confused

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM

but eventually the reaction bonus from forward melt

stops it from oscillating anymore

which is why we all thought it just "wins" over cryo

ZebinMay 13, 2021 4:40 AM

So it that's the case, if I use CA and stop. Wait 2 sec. Then CA again. it would give cryo again?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM

it would be like

Benny applies 1WU every second

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM

KQ doesn't seem to be held to the same rules of infusion

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM

which lasts for 2 second

and then CY reacts only 1~ish second off it

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM

and if you can burn the reactions fast enough, you can fill the space between the reapplication?

if they are staggered correctly'

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM

can't

Melt bias in reactions makes it settle at pyro eventually

unfortunately

IsuMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM

If the timing is correct and if my explanation is correct, yes. But if your timing isn't exactly 120 frames apart, it will also depend on Diluc's reapplication tick rate not changing it back to Pyro, and his tick rate seems to be an unknown at this point

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

we don't have a second CY to use

wait

maybe

co-op?

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

I'm down if you wanna try

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

we need another CY

ZebinMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

Sounds like macro time

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

I have chong, you have chong, you saying we need 3 chongs?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

no I mean

IsuMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM

Yeah I was gonna ask if anyone wants to make a macro for it lol

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

I have c6 benny

if what i'm thinking works

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

ohh

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

we need 2

IsuMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

A macro for N1 dash can result in swings consistently 60 frames apart

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

why can't you switch though?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM

oh right

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

because timing the CY E to be equal will be nightmarish already

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

doesn't have to be equal

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

so couldn't you just switch?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

ye I just

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

lol

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM

forgot you could switch as host

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:46 AM

I'm down to try it

up to you

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:46 AM

lemme go find a good spot to do it on

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:48 AM

k brb gotta go to the bathroom

back

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

aight

so the plan is

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

pm me

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

i'm gonna plunk down benny q

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

and then your going to partially overlap CY e

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM

we both E on top with chong

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM

and i'll do the same

in about the same spot

and then i'm gonna sit in the venn diagram with Ele sight on

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM

ok what kinda venn diagram do you want lol

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM

and see what happens

not a complicated one

want to Chong e in similar spots

just need enough room to walk into one and then the other

TarccMay 13, 2021 4:52 AM

so the 2 chong Es are overlapping with the bennett E, but there is some space where all 3 have their own untouched part

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:53 AM

2 Chong E's in about the same spot

you can just e somehwere away from me

and then i'll go plunk it down where you were standing

TarccMay 13, 2021 5:01 AM

how does this work

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:01 AM

IT FUCKING WORKS

xf3 | 🐬T̷O̷T̶S̷U̷G̷E̴K̴I̵🐬May 13, 2021 5:02 AM

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:02 AM

They stack

TerrapinMay 13, 2021 5:06 AM

lol

if only keqing constantly reapplied

you could just make a party with Jean c6 Benny Chongyun Keqing

and stand there

AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:11 AM

dafuq goin on here

ya know what

im just going to wait for the writeup on this

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:11 AM

CY e

stacks

as in

AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM

wait

so if you have two chongyun E

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM

they both apply gauges

AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM

they can apply enough cryo to your weapon

to override the pyro?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM

okay

Diluc is 1WU

AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM

dafuq

xf3 | 🐬T̷O̷T̶S̷U̷G̷E̴K̴I̵🐬May 13, 2021 5:13 AM

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:16 AM

Diluc is 1WU and ticks every 1 second

fuck I didn't clip it right

but it works

TerrapinMay 13, 2021 5:18 AM

lol

IsuMay 13, 2021 5:36 AM

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 6:25 AM

Finding: Weapon infusions that are not explicitly stated to be "unable to be overwritten" operate through applying elemental gauges to the weapon itself. The Pyro > Cryo > Electro paradigm of infusion overwriting is a result of gauges interacting with each other in specific ways that yield the appearance of a hierarchy, but is not true. Evidence: https://youtu.be/rJKYkrvlnxg https://imgur.com/a/wAchZUi https://imgur.com/a/mbixEuJ Conclusion: Weapon Elemental Gauge Units or WU, can be used to describe the strength of Weapon infusions. Currently all known overwrite-able infusions are 1 WU and apply once every second with the exception of KQ, who only infuses her weapon once on double casting E. The duration of these gauges differs between characters. Reactions on weapons follow the known reaction modifier rules from other types of elemental application, and similar to Self-auras, can oscillate directly between elements without shifting to physical.(edited)

xf3

Infusion Tests

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/xf3123 Twitter: https://twitter.com/xf3123

ZebinMay 13, 2021 6:32 AM

Aaaaaaaa. I missed this since in class rn

Charliex3000 | EM Venti LoverMay 13, 2021 6:12 PM

Damn, this is some real good spaghetti

sexyeboy69May 14, 2021 11:01 PM

i actually did this by accident when fucking around with infused aa's and bushes but when i tested it and it didn't actually superconduct i didn't make a ticket on it

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:02 AM

https://streamable.com/1t259t

Keqing losing enchantment with Elemental sight

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 12:02 AM

Bushes?

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:08 AM

I still think ICDs are a part of this

but like

no c6 Benny for me

I gotta play around with Diluc+Chong some more

That is just so interesting

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:23 AM

Do you guys think the answer to this clip is just Qiqi's weapon oscillating between cryo and pyro infusions, or do you think the 3-hit ICD is in play here?

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:58 AM

https://streamable.com/6w6u7r

2nd half yt clip rip

like if Keqing's physical hit here whiffed I wonder if her sword would stay physical for the next hit if it was inside 2.5s still

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 1:14 AM

since its gauges

one infuse is reducing the gauge of the other

to last a shorter duration than either can refresh

and it wears off

thats at least where I left it that night

sexyeboy69May 15, 2021 1:16 AM

well i was triggered that keqing couldn't break bushes when she teleported

so then i was thinking about whether it was something about it being phys attacks

then i tried using chongyun and some whacky superconduct stuff happened

when i tried using it against a pyro slime i still got the effect but i didn't get any change in damage/debuff arrows

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 4:41 AM

You think the cryo gauge is just decaying?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 4:42 AM

in which example

just the chong field

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 6:10 AM

The Keqing+Chongyun one

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 6:09 PM

what talent level is chong

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:33 PM

level 2

I have some clips at level 4 as well

2.1s enchantment, refreshed every second upon entering the field(edited)

Maybe, this is the clip at regular speed https://streamable.com/ze97wr

Keqing weirdness esight

Looks like the superconduct animation happens right when elemental sight turns on, when Keqing's E is at 5.0s cooldown, and the physical damage number occurs at 4.0. Though her sword does lose its enchantment color the frame after it hits for cryo, and also regains its cryo color the frame after it strikes the ruin guard for physical.

WU gauges could have very short decay times though. It's hard to know much about them exactly

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:43 PM

https://streamable.com/9bjqlh Also the 2x hit part of Keqing hit chain has cryo and physical swings here

staggered enchantment attack ICDs 3

I think the cryo gauge decaying is a pretty improbable coincidence(edited)

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 9:43 PM

i'll mess around with it later.

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:46 PM

Also as far as I can tell this doesn't happen unless you're hitting a target

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 10:20 PM

Actually nevermind, I've found conflicting evidence finally

it probably is just decaying gauges(edited)

Nothing to do with ICD 3rd hits

https://streamable.com/es0z9n

Cryo weapon gauge decaying and being reapplied

You can watch the color of her swings being purple>cyan>yellow>cyan

So I think given that we know weapon gauges are unusual compared to normal gauges, and cryo/pyro weapon auras are swapped between without a moment of having no aura, I think it's reasonable to think that weapon gauges can decay very quickly. Maybe they have something in common with the electrocharge aura in that they don't eliminate each other, and 1 electro WU+ 1 cryo WU = half a second of cryo(edited)

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 10:34 PM

Yeah. I wish I'd just tested this a long time ago.

https://streamable.com/pd2n6s

Keqing+Chong weapon gauge decay

Now it all makes way more sense

(edited)

FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 11:43 PM

Alright I'm done testing I think. I think I know all I care to as far as practical application goes. It seems really hard to exploit the timing of competing weapon gauges in some controllable way https://streamable.com/96sp23

Diluc cryo pyro swaps

It's definitely easier to take advantage of with a character that attacks quickly like Qiqi on a Bennett pad because the moments of cryo enchantment are so short and easy to miss out on(edited)

FrigginManateesMay 18, 2021 2:39 PM

Should we work on making a library submission or just close it?

AyzelMay 18, 2021 8:24 PM

this is a library submission?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 18, 2021 9:41 PM

there are still a few more things that I want to test

FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 12:14 AM

https://streamable.com/gdnlzd

esight cryoluc

E-pyro-pyro-phys | pyro-cryo-pyro-cryo | pyro-cryo-cryo-cryo (no a4 to extend pyro enchantment)(edited)

I don't know what that physical hit means. Maybe weapon gauges can cancel each other out

and they don't just skip zero, like we thought

Also the color of the weapon slash animation doesn't necessarily indicate what element the attack will hit as, which is particularly noticeable on slow attacks.

This is a no animation snapshot zone

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 12:31 AM

idk if you saw Carrier's posts in Theorycrafting earlier, but we do know now that Diluc's decay rate is incredibly slow from datamines.

2 Chong procs would only yield a cryo aura for a handful of frames at best.

FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:21 AM

Oh I missed that! Any chance you could link it?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 1:21 AM

https://discordapp.com/channels/763583452762734592/763610791839924224/844195970245984266

FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:22 AM

I was just recording this for someone else but I had never seen a physical hit like this before

thanks

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 1:22 AM

if you look in the character files

you can see blocks of code related to the weapon infuse

search elementdurability

FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:24 AM

Oh neat

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 2:17 AM

i'll deep dive into that video in a bit

it might illustrate some of the things in there.

FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 3:07 AM

Thanks

I had a whole paragraph of ideas typed up and then just deleted it all when I recorded that...(edited)

srlMay 20, 2021 5:37 AM

not sure if you guys saw but it looks like in config that chongyun infuse is only .5s whereas bennett is 2.1s

significance? no clue

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 5:49 AM

the .5 is probably overwritten by the actual talent level of CY

2-3 seconds

AsakiMay 27, 2021 7:13 AM

Question: does an enemy gets reduced Phys RES if the Superconduct reaction occurs right on the weapon due to the KQ/CY interaction?

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 27, 2021 2:45 PM

Yes

As you can see in my vid it causes the debuff arrows to appear

Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 3, 2021 6:19 AM

Ticket Closed by @Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYA

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Verified

denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:00 PM

Do we have Xiao tests? I know his Q can't be overwritten, but his weapon is infused with Anemo, right? Does that mean it randomly Swirls Pyro or Cryo every few seconds when under CY E or Benny C6 Q? If it doesn't Swirl, then we can further conclude that: - "unable to be overwritten" infusions don't apply any WU at all and just typically overwrite the elements of attacks, as opposed to applying a really, really, high WU to the weapon If it does Swirl, - "unable to be overwritten" infusions actually apply WU but at a really high magnitude. it likely has no bearing to reducing the duration of the infusion itself, unlike other types of reactions If it does Swirl, and it procs every second - WU has no ICD If it does Swirl, and it procs every few seconds - WU has ICD I'm not particularly sure Noelle can be applicable as a subsitute, since we can 'kind of' consider her Q to be a sort of weapon or stance change. At least with Xiao, it seems like a pure weapon infusion.(edited)

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM

It isn't like this

Zei did a video test showing its the unoverwriteable kind

aka it has the aura but it doesn't matter because it swaps his whole kit out for a catalyst-like moveset

similar to HT

Noelle is applicable as a substitute. I noticed during DS testing that during burst her normal string has different frame data from her uninfused string

i.e they hard coded a new string and didn't quite match up the frame data

we will have to wait for a whale to get c6 kaz

denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM

ahh, my copium levels were so high. this is so sad

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM

before we can do the swirl tests

unfortunately

denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM

at least i can verify the existing investigation then

revisit when kazuha comes

Mono$INVEST₼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:13 PM