Server: KQM | Genshin Impact (763583452762734592) Channel: weapon-gauge-theory (842230647569514516) Messages: 200 Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYA#8058 (154004693826273280) Tarcc#7510 (126223174026133504) Zebin#1678 (354915902128521216) Isu#6867 (159800021544337409) xf3 | šŸ¬TĢ·OĢ·TĢ¶SĢ·UĢ·GĢ·EĢ“KĢ“IĢµšŸ¬#3123 (141941251350986752) Terrapin#8603 (81165492328333312) Ayzel#7399 (276182497145126912) Charliex3000 | EM Venti Lover#9403 (294576257448804352) sexyeboy69#6969 (421450585439600646) FrigginManatees#2670 (152858483132334080) srl#2712 (156096226721398786) Asaki#9139 (688863103030525959) Yuehai Ticketing Secretary#4843 (557628352828014614) denmax#9293 (140866779894251520) KQM | Genshin Impact - weapon-gauge-theory
KQM | Genshin Impact
weapon-gauge-theory
200 messages
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM
so it was swinging back and forth a bit
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM
yeah, which is what I initially thought then was confused
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:39 AM
but eventually the reaction bonus from forward melt
stops it from oscillating anymore
which is why we all thought it just "wins" over cryo
ZebinMay 13, 2021 4:40 AM
So it that's the case, if I use CA and stop. Wait 2 sec. Then CA again. it would give cryo again?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM
it would be like
Benny applies 1WU every second
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM
KQ doesn't seem to be held to the same rules of infusion
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:41 AM
which lasts for 2 second
and then CY reacts only 1~ish second off it
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM
and if you can burn the reactions fast enough, you can fill the space between the reapplication?
if they are staggered correctly'
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM
can't
Melt bias in reactions makes it settle at pyro eventually
unfortunately
IsuMay 13, 2021 4:42 AM
If the timing is correct and if my explanation is correct, yes. But if your timing isn't exactly 120 frames apart, it will also depend on Diluc's reapplication tick rate not changing it back to Pyro, and his tick rate seems to be an unknown at this point
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
we don't have a second CY to use
Sadge
THONK
wait
maybe
co-op?
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
I'm down if you wanna try
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
we need another CY
ZebinMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
Sounds like macro timekekqing
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
I have chong, you have chong, you saying we need 3 chongs?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
no I mean
IsuMay 13, 2021 4:43 AM
Yeah I was gonna ask if anyone wants to make a macro for it lol
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
I have c6 benny
if what i'm thinking works
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
ohh
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
we need 2
IsuMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
A macro for N1 dash can result in swings consistently 60 frames apart
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
why can't you switch though?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:44 AM
oh right
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
because timing the CY E to be equal will be nightmarish already
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
doesn't have to be equal
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
so couldn't you just switch?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
ye I just Pepega d
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
lol
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:45 AM
forgot you could switch as host
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:46 AM
I'm down to try it
up to you
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:46 AM
lemme go find a good spot to do it on
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:48 AM
k brb gotta go to the bathroom
back
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
aight
so the plan is
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
pm me
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
i'm gonna plunk down benny q
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
ok
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
and then your going to partially overlap CY e
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:50 AM
we both E on top with chong
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM
and i'll do the same
in about the same spot
and then i'm gonna sit in the venn diagram with Ele sight on
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM
ok what kinda venn diagram do you want lol
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:51 AM
and see what happens
not a complicated one
want to Chong e in similar spots
just need enough room to walk into one and then the other
TarccMay 13, 2021 4:52 AM
so the 2 chong Es are overlapping with the bennett E, but there is some space where all 3 have their own untouched part
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 4:53 AM
2 Chong E's in about the same spot
you can just e somehwere away from me
and then i'll go plunk it down where you were standing
TarccMay 13, 2021 5:01 AM
how does this work
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:01 AM
OMEGALUL
IT FUCKING WORKS
xf3 | šŸ¬TĢ·OĢ·TĢ¶SĢ·UĢ·GĢ·EĢ“KĢ“IĢµšŸ¬May 13, 2021 5:02 AM
OMEGALUL
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:02 AM
They stack
TerrapinMay 13, 2021 5:06 AM
lol
if only keqing constantly reapplied
you could just make a party with Jean c6 Benny Chongyun Keqing
and stand there
AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:11 AM
dafuq goin on here
KleePog1
ya know what
im just going to wait for the writeup on this
KleePog1
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:11 AM
CY e
stacks
as in
AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM
wait
so if you have two chongyun E
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM
they both apply gauges
AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM
they can apply enough cryo to your weapon
to override the pyro?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM
okay
Diluc is 1WU
OMEGALUL
AyzelMay 13, 2021 5:12 AM
dafuq
xf3 | šŸ¬TĢ·OĢ·TĢ¶SĢ·UĢ·GĢ·EĢ“KĢ“IĢµšŸ¬May 13, 2021 5:13 AM
OMEGALUL
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 5:16 AM
kleeHHAHa
Diluc is 1WU and ticks every 1 second
fuck I didn't clip it right
but it works
TerrapinMay 13, 2021 5:18 AM
lol
IsuMay 13, 2021 5:36 AM
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 13, 2021 6:25 AM
Finding: Weapon infusions that are not explicitly stated to be "unable to be overwritten" operate through applying elemental gauges to the weapon itself. The Pyro > Cryo > Electro paradigm of infusion overwriting is a result of gauges interacting with each other in specific ways that yield the appearance of a hierarchy, but is not true. Evidence: https://youtu.be/rJKYkrvlnxg https://imgur.com/a/wAchZUi https://imgur.com/a/mbixEuJ Conclusion: Weapon Elemental Gauge Units or WU, can be used to describe the strength of Weapon infusions. Currently all known overwrite-able infusions are 1 WU and apply once every second with the exception of KQ, who only infuses her weapon once on double casting E. The duration of these gauges differs between characters. Reactions on weapons follow the known reaction modifier rules from other types of elemental application, and similar to Self-auras, can oscillate directly between elements without shifting to physical.(edited)
ZebinMay 13, 2021 6:32 AM
Aaaaaaaa. I missed this since in class rnSadge
Charliex3000 | EM Venti LoverMay 13, 2021 6:12 PM
Damn, this is some real good spaghetti
sexyeboy69May 14, 2021 11:01 PM
i actually did this by accident when fucking around with infused aa's and bushes but when i tested it and it didn't actually superconduct i didn't make a ticket on it
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:02 AM
Keqing losing enchantment with Elemental sight
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 12:02 AM
Bushes?
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:08 AM
I still think ICDs are a part of this
but like
no c6 Benny for me
so
I gotta play around with Diluc+Chong some more
That is just so interesting
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:23 AM
Do you guys think the answer to this clip is just Qiqi's weapon oscillating between cryo and pyro infusions, or do you think the 3-hit ICD is in play here?
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 12:58 AM
2nd half yt clip rip
like if Keqing's physical hit here whiffed I wonder if her sword would stay physical for the next hit if it was inside 2.5s still
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 1:14 AM
since its gauges
one infuse is reducing the gauge of the other
to last a shorter duration than either can refresh
and it wears off
thats at least where I left it that night
sexyeboy69May 15, 2021 1:16 AM
well i was triggered that keqing couldn't break bushes when she teleported
so then i was thinking about whether it was something about it being phys attacks
then i tried using chongyun and some whacky superconduct stuff happened
when i tried using it against a pyro slime i still got the effect but i didn't get any change in damage/debuff arrows
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 4:41 AM
You think the cryo gauge is just decaying?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 4:42 AM
in which example
just the chong field
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 6:10 AM
The Keqing+Chongyun one
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 6:09 PM
what talent level is chong
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:33 PM
level 2
I have some clips at level 4 as well
2.1s enchantment, refreshed every second upon entering the field(edited)
Maybe, this is the clip at regular speed https://streamable.com/ze97wr
Keqing weirdness esight
Looks like the superconduct animation happens right when elemental sight turns on, when Keqing's E is at 5.0s cooldown, and the physical damage number occurs at 4.0. Though her sword does lose its enchantment color the frame after it hits for cryo, and also regains its cryo color the frame after it strikes the ruin guard for physical.
WU gauges could have very short decay times though. It's hard to know much about them exactly
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:43 PM
https://streamable.com/9bjqlh Also the 2x hit part of Keqing hit chain has cryo and physical swings here
staggered enchantment attack ICDs 3
I think the cryo gauge decaying is a pretty improbable coincidence(edited)
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 15, 2021 9:43 PM
i'll mess around with it later.
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 9:46 PM
Also as far as I can tell this doesn't happen unless you're hitting a target
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 10:20 PM
Actually nevermind, I've found conflicting evidence finally
it probably is just decaying gauges(edited)
Nothing to do with ICD 3rd hits
Cryo weapon gauge decaying and being reapplied
You can watch the color of her swings being purple>cyan>yellow>cyan
So I think given that we know weapon gauges are unusual compared to normal gauges, and cryo/pyro weapon auras are swapped between without a moment of having no aura, I think it's reasonable to think that weapon gauges can decay very quickly. Maybe they have something in common with the electrocharge aura in that they don't eliminate each other, and 1 electro WU+ 1 cryo WU = half a second of cryo(edited)
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 10:34 PM
Yeah. I wish I'd just tested this a long time ago.
Keqing+Chong weapon gauge decay
Now it all makes way more sense
KleePog(edited)
FrigginManateesMay 15, 2021 11:43 PM
Alright I'm done testing I think. I think I know all I care to as far as practical application goes. It seems really hard to exploit the timing of competing weapon gauges in some controllable way https://streamable.com/96sp23
Diluc cryo pyro swaps
It's definitely easier to take advantage of with a character that attacks quickly like Qiqi on a Bennett pad because the moments of cryo enchantment are so short and easy to miss out on(edited)
FrigginManateesMay 18, 2021 2:39 PM
Should we work on making a library submission or just close it?
AyzelMay 18, 2021 8:24 PM
this is a library submission?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 18, 2021 9:41 PM
there are still a few more things that I want to test
FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 12:14 AM
E-pyro-pyro-phys | pyro-cryo-pyro-cryo | pyro-cryo-cryo-cryo (no a4 to extend pyro enchantment)(edited)
I don't know what that physical hit means. Maybe weapon gauges can cancel each other out
and they don't just skip zero, like we thought
Also the color of the weapon slash animation doesn't necessarily indicate what element the attack will hit as, which is particularly noticeable on slow attacks.
This is a no animation snapshot zone xianglingSparkle
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 12:31 AM
idk if you saw Carrier's posts in Theorycrafting earlier, but we do know now that Diluc's decay rate is incredibly slow from datamines.
2 Chong procs would only yield a cryo aura for a handful of frames at best.
FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:21 AM
Oh I missed that! Any chance you could link it?
FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:22 AM
I was just recording this for someone else but I had never seen a physical hit like this before
thanks
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 1:22 AM
if you look in the character files
you can see blocks of code related to the weapon infuse
search elementdurability
FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 1:24 AM
Oh neat
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 2:17 AM
i'll deep dive into that video in a bit
it might illustrate some of the things in there.
FrigginManateesMay 20, 2021 3:07 AM
Thanks
I had a whole paragraph of ideas typed up and then just deleted it all when I recorded that...(edited)
srlMay 20, 2021 5:37 AM
not sure if you guys saw but it looks like in config that chongyun infuse is only .5s whereas bennett is 2.1s
significance? no clue
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 20, 2021 5:49 AM
the .5 is probably overwritten by the actual talent level of CY
2-3 seconds
AsakiMay 27, 2021 7:13 AM
Question: does an enemy gets reduced Phys RES if the Superconduct reaction occurs right on the weapon due to the KQ/CY interaction?
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAMay 27, 2021 2:45 PM
Yes
As you can see in my vid it causes the debuff arrows to appear
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 3, 2021 6:19 AM
Ticket Closed by @Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYA
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denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:00 PM
Do we have Xiao tests? I know his Q can't be overwritten, but his weapon is infused with Anemo, right? Does that mean it randomly Swirls Pyro or Cryo every few seconds when under CY E or Benny C6 Q? If it doesn't Swirl, then we can further conclude that: - "unable to be overwritten" infusions don't apply any WU at all and just typically overwrite the elements of attacks, as opposed to applying a really, really, high WU to the weapon If it does Swirl, - "unable to be overwritten" infusions actually apply WU but at a really high magnitude. it likely has no bearing to reducing the duration of the infusion itself, unlike other types of reactions If it does Swirl, and it procs every second - WU has no ICD If it does Swirl, and it procs every few seconds - WU has ICD I'm not particularly sure Noelle can be applicable as a subsitute, since we can 'kind of' consider her Q to be a sort of weapon or stance change. At least with Xiao, it seems like a pure weapon infusion.(edited)
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM
It isn't like this
Zei did a video test showing its the unoverwriteable kind
aka it has the aura but it doesn't matter because it swaps his whole kit out for a catalyst-like moveset
similar to HT
Noelle is applicable as a substitute. I noticed during DS testing that during burst her normal string has different frame data from her uninfused string
i.e they hard coded a new string and didn't quite match up the frame data
we will have to wait for a whale to get c6 kaz
denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM
ahh, my copium levels were so high. this is so sad
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM
before we can do the swirl tests
unfortunately
denmaxJun 3, 2021 3:12 PM
at least i can verify the existing investigation then
revisit when kazuha comes
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 3, 2021 3:13 PM
animenod
Mono$INVESTā‚¼IMAGINENOTUSINGKAEYAJun 5, 2021 9:22 PM
AyzelJun 11, 2021 5:16 AM
verified, moving to publishing
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 18, 2021 3:59 AM
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