oh hey it works. Confirmed with ToM zhongli that 5559 is the exact damage eula does with ToM active
btw its still rendering, wait a few minutes for higher quality potato
xiao works. Confirmed with ToM buff my eula does 5559 damage
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 21, 2021 11:03 AM
Ok, so tom does work
We just need someone who is fast enough to proc it really, really quickly
AyzelMay 21, 2021 3:59 PM
hmm
childe maybe?
melee stance change is very fast
jstern25| jstep hutaoMay 21, 2021 4:20 PM
How fast is xinyan
Or bennet
Diona/kaeya tap
GreyhoundMay 21, 2021 4:37 PM
kaeya and bennett are instantly out, their frames are about twice as long as the timeframe for it, I have no idea how long xinyan takes on E, diona is within the timeframe on her movement but might not work because of paw travel time
alphaMNTMay 21, 2021 6:22 PM
Would this work for Rosaria A4 crit buff?
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 22, 2021 12:20 AM
Rosaria has been shown to not work though, shes too slow...
4tom rosaria procs after the sword explodes
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 22, 2021 12:33 AM
Characters excluded without testing, by virtue of their startup:
Amber
Albedo
Barbara
Bennett
Beidou
Chong
Kaeya
Keqing
Razor
Sucrose
Qiqi
Venti
Xiangling
Zhongli
Xingqiu
Diluc
Yanfei
Hu tao
Characters excluded by virtue of testing:
Rosaria
traveller
Fischl
ning
diona (hold)
Characters who work
Xiao
noelle
childe
xinyan (no c2 tho)
Ganyu
lisa
jean
diona (tap)
Characters who can or untested:
Mona (?)
Klee (?)(edited)
Someone check this?
alphaMNTMay 22, 2021 1:13 AM
You're talking about 4tom on E?
I meant her crit share on Q
So if you hotkey swap into Q, you could potentially get 4NO plus Rosaria's crit share
SenovitMay 22, 2021 1:34 AM
if she shares crit on q press rather than at any point later in the animation then it should work, but i can't say for sure
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 22, 2021 4:17 AM
Talking about tom yeah
I doubt any 4no user would be too slow
Given the wording
scaradouche | erisMay 22, 2021 3:32 PM
i can test whether 4tom works for all 4 star characters except yanfei
GreyhoundMay 22, 2021 3:43 PM
everyone with 40 or longer frames on E will not work, this instantly excludes:
kaeya, rosaria, chong, bedo, barbruh, xq, bennett, xiangling, yanfei and many other 5*s
diona is within the frames but travel time might make her no work so different ranges might varry results
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:23 AM
Edited my message
The tcl is woefully incomplete, the entire list of unknowns beside diona and lisa have no frame counts(edited)
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:39 AM
We also dont have venti and sucrose frame counts
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:53 AM
is it confirmed 40 frames? you said 20-25 another time
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 12:54 AM
I didn't count the explosion alone, just estimated it based on previous ult footage that included start to finish, it's about half of a second which would be 30 frames
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:54 AM
ok, lemme check my recordings then
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 12:55 AM
I can go count it if you want
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:55 AM
yeah that would be better
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 12:55 AM
but I doubt it'll change things
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:55 AM
mine is 30 fps
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 12:55 AM
for now I'm getting rid of the characters that need 4 tom tested
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 12:57 AM
theres like, 1 edge case with 37 frames, i cant remember who
so 25 to 40 is a small change
i helped you filter already, the ones on the list were the ones with no frame counts
lisa is 23 frames, so point blank might make it, and diona is 15 tap/24 hold, so it might work point blank
rest all have no info, but hutao surprisingly didnt make the cut with her 42 frames
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:06 AM
doesn't work: fischl, ning, diona hold E, anemo mc, geo mc
works: noelle, tartaglia, diona tap E, xinyan, ganyu, lisa
don't own klee/mona
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:06 AM
whoa thats fast
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:07 AM
they're simple tests and I play on 30 ping
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:10 AM
for xinyan, do you have a c2?
since c2 ult procs sac gs, perhaps c2 can proc 4tom
meaning you can use xinyan e at the start, enhance eula ult damage, and swap off at the end to xinyan ult to gain 4tom bonus without having to deal with the 18sec cd
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:14 AM
I'll log back in
irrelevant, too slow
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:15 AM
sad
would be hella cinematic too, a dancing leadup to a guitar solo or something
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:21 AM
about 40 frames from the moment you can use abilities after swap (30 ping)
a little over half of a second
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:21 AM
gimme a sec, ill find the edge case here
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:21 AM
if you find it fast enough and it's not some random 5* I can test it out right now before goign to bed
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:24 AM
im very dumb, somehow i missed jean is 23 frames
welp cant find it
some editor will have fun finding the missing one im sure
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:26 AM
they'll probably force eggs to clear this crap, nobody else besides him, arte and zajef can verify this afaik and good luck getting zajef or arte to do it
but yeah you should move jean into work
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:30 AM
changed, so we have a working list of 4tom
GreyhoundMay 23, 2021 1:32 AM
you forgot to add the 2 dionas
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 1:33 AM
done
wait shit
we dont have mona ult frames
what if
just what if
we could do mona ult buff but
backwards
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 2:28 AM
mona ult buff is confirmed to not work
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 23, 2021 10:08 PM
Klee is too long
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:00 PM
decided to look into whether rosaria q crit buff would apply this way. set my team up so eula had 70.3% crit, + 15% from cryo resonance and +15% from rosaria crit buff which should mean 100% crit if rosaria works and 85.3% crit if it doesn't
after 100 trials i got 92 crits and 8 noncrits
didn't record all 100 because it would have been too long but i did a portion of it just to show methodology in case i did anything wrong that can be spotted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tor1JeT-Hg
one thing i will say is that only 8 failures seems a bit low for what should have been 15% chance of noncrit, so it's possible that there's a time thing involved - maybe sometimes rosaria's buff is applying, sometimes it isn't
but it's also possible that i was just unlucky, and rosaria crit buff isn't working this way
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:02 PM
I don't want to be the one to tell you this but instead of doing 100 runs you could've opened the stat pages at different times in her burst animation
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:04 PM
oh, does it not turn on until later in the animation
i didn't even think of that
i spammed c and see it on, but there was a small delay
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:07 PM
gave it a few attempts, looks like it's on time if you alt+num(edited)
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:08 PM
ah, so i guess we can say it probably should work, but for whatever reason it doesn't always
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:08 PM
it should always work
you might've been late on the failed attempts
getting vid in a moment
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:08 PM
i always used alt+number
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:15 PM
tried looking at rosaria alone without eula, the crit share from rosaria Q is instant
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:15 PM
maybe i should try and see if i can get any fail states from alt swapping into a 4pc no buff
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:21 PM
I can't press C any sooner than that
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:21 PM
yeah i saw the same thing
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:34 PM
put 4 no on my rosaria, the first clip shows swap with alt burst into rosa, what should have been a 100% crit rate with noblesse buff up deals one crit one non crit, the non crit is 22641(edited)
the second clip is swap into rosa with no burst, for what should be 85% crit rate without noblesse buff, damage dealt is 21116(edited)
so 4pc no buff works on alt swap but rosa buff may not
i just realized something while clicking through the party menu
elemental resonance isn't active unless you have a full party even if you have 2 cryo?
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:34 PM
Yes
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:35 PM
well then
throw this out the window i guess
i would say it's very likely it does always work then, but i will verify it later tonight
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:36 PM
that's unfortunate
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:38 PM
Im just trying to find a rotation that includes sc, ttds and rosas crit and noblesse buff all at the same time
Theorectically speaking as long as you cast eulas skill before it all goes down you should be able to do it eith alt swaps?
SenovitMay 24, 2021 11:38 PM
lisa q eula eq end with noblesse rosa q?
yeah you should be able to fit rosa in before eula too
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:38 PM
Eula E->bennett Q-> lisa Q->Eula Q->Eula combo->Rosaria Q
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:39 PM
I was thinking more of 4tom lisa, 4no rosa, eula e to rosa ult to lisa e to eula q cycle end off by swap to lisa and e
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:39 PM
4 tom lisa
bruv
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:39 PM
I mean, we did find it theoretically possible
And lisas damage sucks anyway
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:39 PM
just give her the 4no
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:40 PM
Might as well give her a ttds and a set she benefits the team more from
Yeah but with 4tom she doesnt need to burst every cycle
Its easier on the energy
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:41 PM
this team already wants to one shot
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 24, 2021 11:42 PM
Isnt it kinda sustainable if the 4th slot is diona? Diona eula ros electro flex is already a solid base isnt it?
GreyhoundMay 24, 2021 11:53 PM
eh, the team's damage is pretty low&reliant on eula to 2 burst for those set ups
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 25, 2021 12:30 AM
what are the decent team damage eula teams, then?
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 25, 2021 5:54 AM
<@264018289359847424> given we already investigated all characters, should be just do a write up and close the ticket?
Well once we finish up rosaria ult shit
GreyhoundMay 25, 2021 6:35 AM
her highest dps teams are the ones that forgo her energy and just push on using the traditionally strong teammates (beidou, venti, zhongli, bennett, xingqiu, etc.)
idk what else is there you want finished with rosaria ult, but I want to do a final framecount for the window on eula ult explosion then after that I think you can close it as further buffs would fall into #eula-buff-catalog since they're not on swap
GreyhoundMay 25, 2021 7:12 AM
36-38 frames on ult detonation
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 25, 2021 7:38 AM
Interesting
Could you retest diona hold e? Its only 24 frames so it not making it within 12-14 frames is peculiar
GreyhoundMay 25, 2021 7:39 AM
hold takes too long of a charge up before animation
that's why tap works hold fails
explosion is up by the time she starts doing the animation
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 25, 2021 7:40 AM
I see
We should probably report it as an inconsistency in the tcl, the start up is also animation frames
GreyhoundMay 25, 2021 7:41 AM
it's not part of the animation
so the frames are correct
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 25, 2021 7:42 AM
Shouldnt the frames also include frames which are unavoidable in order to perform the move?
GreyhoundMay 25, 2021 7:43 AM
they're not part of the animation it's just the game taking too long to distinguish between tap and hold
SenovitMay 25, 2021 6:02 PM
oh i decided not to bother with rosaria ult anymore, just gonna say it works
the only thing i was going to do was get it to 100 crit rate with it and make sure there were no crits, but getting 92/100 crits on an 85% if rosaria crit buff works or 70% if it doesn't is good enough for me
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 26, 2021 12:24 AM
Good enough, ill write the write-up in a while and close it up
jstern25| jstep hutaoMay 26, 2021 1:38 AM
if any of these are practical it's diona tap and rosaria lance
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 26, 2021 11:40 PM
ok i just realised
we need vids for everyone listed except rosaria and xiao
for evidence
PseunomiaMay 27, 2021 5:39 AM
Does xinyan E also work for this?
Sir_pick_the_prickMay 27, 2021 9:41 AM
yes
Monochrom9Jun 5, 2021 9:40 PM
<@!557202637687095307> if you could consolidate the information into a finding that would streamline the auditing for us editors. If this ticket doesn't get finished by the hard deadline we might have to just nip it in the bud and get the information later.
Sir_pick_the_prickJun 6, 2021 1:11 AM
Sure
Hold on, this is your ticket, isnt it?
Sir_pick_the_prickJun 6, 2021 4:13 AM
actually, i have some rl shit thats making it difficult to do some recording. i can compile the evidence we have rn, but i lack evidence for 4tom on fischl, ning, diona, anemo mc, geo mc, noelle, childe, xinyan, ganyu and lisa. otherwise, i can compile the evidence for everything else and upload it on youtube.
also i just lack a 4tom set and im currently bankrupt so even if i had time, no dice(edited)
Monochrom9Jun 6, 2021 4:14 AM
i'm of half a mind to just have the ticket say "this is possible and here is the rough window of time you have to do it"
leave the examples to the guide
Sir_pick_the_prickJun 6, 2021 4:22 AM
I can do the findings evidence significance shit easy
But the evidence compilation is the painful bit
So its either wait for some philantropist with all the above characters willing to recharge eulas burst a dozen times in a row, or take us at our word
Both of which is pretty shit options
Kinda why i think its better to just archive and dig it out later
Findings: eulas burst does not snapshot even after she is swapped offield, allowing for the opportunity to apply team buffs after eulas ult is used but before it hits (23 frame window) , thus increasing eulas ult damage. This applies to 4no, rosarias crit buff and certain users of 4tom.(edited)
oh hey it works. Confirmed with ToM zhongli that 5559 is the exact damage eula does with ToM active
Significance: better ult cycles.
<@154004693826273280> this is the best i can do with the evidence in this channel.
Is it good enough? If not its probably best to just nuke and save for another time
Monochrom9Jun 6, 2021 4:24 AM
yeah thats more than enough
we can just leave it at that for now
Yuehai Ticketing SecretaryBOTJun 6, 2021 4:24 AM
Ticket Closed by <@154004693826273280>
Save transcript
Reopen Ticket
Delete Ticket
AyzelJun 12, 2021 1:54 AM
verified
xf3Jun 12, 2021 5:12 AM
Verified
ArtesiansJun 12, 2021 5:14 AM
!role 167334847101009920 Wangsheng Theorycrafter
Keqing's Eternal AssistantBOTJun 12, 2021 5:14 AM
Added Wangsheng Theorycrafter to Senovit#8237.
jstern25| jstep hutaoJun 12, 2021 8:13 PM
Why is there no video proof for xinyan and diona tap
The one's you would practically use(edited)
GreyhoundJun 12, 2021 8:23 PM
because I was too busy and didn't feel like getting out of my way to do it when the ticket was getting closed down and then editors decided we don't need videos anyway so I didn't do it once things slowed down for me, and nobody else cared enough for it to gather it
xf3Jun 12, 2021 8:33 PM
if you can get videos of it we can add it while transferring to the TCL
Save transcript
Reopen Ticket
Delete Ticket
