@elijam - Ningguang Q gems from E screen snapshot mechanics
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Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Ning E gems no Bennett buff, other gems Bennett buff
Initial gems directly from Ningguang deal 774 damage, while gems from her E screen deal only 231 damage, due to Ningguang receiving Bennett's buff after E cast and snapshot.
Significance: Better team and rotation building for Ningguang surrounding setting up buffs for her E to snapshot.
elijamJun 24, 2021 5:45 AM
actually going to maybe wait to close this until I can verify that Ningguang's Q does not snapshot since I think the TCL entry claiming it doesn't doesn't necessarily show that since it didn't account for the E screen snapshotting the lack of dragonslayers buff
Bobrokrot | Don't invest in ₼BUGJun 24, 2021 6:12 AM
Yeah my initial submission does not account for that and it has to be revisited.
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:17 AM
oh hello! you are the author
we were doing some testing of it in tc general
she might snapshot? but we're going to try to get better footage of it with a few different tests another day
IsuJun 24, 2021 6:20 AM
https://youtu.be/ocjfZ22VcHk
Here is the test I did, which seems to indicate that it snapshots during the cast animation as the gems hit after Bennett's buff has expired
you can see clearly in the first video that I ult for 1076 or so base, then eat food mid ult in the second and still hit for 1076(edited)
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:43 AM
why did you take just diona for shieldbreak
AiJun 24, 2021 6:43 AM
i needed particles for ult and didn't want a resonance and didn't want to die lmaooo
i haven't done a regisvine this handicapped ever
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:44 AM
alright I will refrain from questioning your regisvine decisions
I tried to do cryo regisvine with just childe the other day
for fun
AiJun 24, 2021 6:44 AM
the food ult damage is in the second clip on my twitter if you want to see what it's supposed to hit for, around 1200 damage
i derped and forgot to record it in the first batch and psn doesn't let me butcher footages together
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:46 AM
wanna upload the LP stacks one too just bc why not?
and then I'll try to rewrite the ticket with uh
ning snapshots but separately with E and Q and half the Q uses E
and I'll link your videos and the one from the person earlier
AiJun 24, 2021 6:46 AM
let me trim the lp stack ones down and get em going up
they're like 10minutes lol
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:46 AM
sure
Bobrokrot | Don't invest in ₼BUGJun 24, 2021 6:50 AM
I've been doing a lot of tests using Royal catalyst in #royal-mechanics
Did a similar test for Ningguang ult. Gained 5 Royal stacks, raised crit up to 100% and then ulted. 100% crit chance was snapshotted.
https://youtu.be/pUenM2hrNLI
Bobrokrot
Royal Ning ult
AiJun 24, 2021 6:52 AM
oh, that's fascinating idea, but it looks to have a 45cr default, so isn't that something that leaves room to say 'maybe you got lucky the whole ult'? maybe i'm being dumb, it's 3am... lol(edited)
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:54 AM
it's about a 1.5% chance but yeah possible
wait no
much higher
bc the first one would be guaranteed crit
and also because I forgot how many gems ning has in her ult after working on it for hours and typed 7 instead of 6
5% chance
AiJun 24, 2021 6:54 AM
not saying it can't be a prover, just i wanna be damn sure ahaha
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:55 AM
but I can still include it with the other videos since like
95% evidence plus two things corroborating it
AiJun 24, 2021 6:55 AM
i realized i forgot to get the control LP cuz it's hard af to ult with 0 stacks lmao, i'll get another batch real quick
and uh, was the top of the ticket proof that E snapshots its Q gems?
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:55 AM
I mean we only really need 1 stack vs 1>2 stack
yeah
AiJun 24, 2021 6:56 AM
yeah that's what i'm trying to get, let me see if i can run it a few times to get it on one footage instead of a gillion
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:58 AM
oh I see
you're trying to do like 0 stacks vs 1>0?
I mean personally
I am happy with just your food buff video, Isu's Bennett buff video, and Bobrokot's royal catalyst video
I was going to just have you upload the LP one since you had it already
AiJun 24, 2021 6:58 AM
NOPE i got the best footage LOL why didn't i think of this
elijamJun 24, 2021 6:58 AM
but if it's going to make you do more work don't worry about it
OwO?
AiJun 24, 2021 6:59 AM
I e'd at 1lp stack and then Q'd at 2, damage difference, now I just need to get ult from 2-3 and if it changes damage again we're done, this one's gonna be 2 clips still but way trimmed down already with the control 1 stack already in there
elijamJun 24, 2021 7:03 AM
sexy
Bobrokrot | Don't invest in ₼BUGJun 24, 2021 7:03 AM
No idea why it plugs genshin on the psn store but alright
Basically you see me E in the first for 1 stack iirc, and the 2 goes through (showing they snapshot differently), in the last clip (after the dud run), you also see me Q and go from 2 stacks to 3 mid transition but still only do the 2 stack damage(edited)
elijamJun 24, 2021 7:18 AM
nice
I'll rewrite this all tmrw and like
wrap it all up and stuff
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:19 PM
wait, problem
in Bobrokrot's tests, they E with A4, walk through screen, gain A4, then Q, but all gems deal the same damage(edited)
oh
wait
that's because generally characters at lvl21 don't have their A4s
ignore me
srlJun 24, 2021 12:23 PM
so the stats should be snapshotted the moment the gems gets created. im not sure if ning creates all the gems at once when she presses Q
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:36 PM
if we take the animation as any kind of evidence then they're pretty much simultaneous
or at least all her personal gems are simultaneous which is what matters
since the screen gems are based off of snapshot on E cast
srlJun 24, 2021 12:39 PM
ya it should be animation, i.e. when jade shows up on screen. would be pretty scuffed if they initiate the object but then dont draw it on screen...
hmm, the screen gems is interesting, so it gets created when screen gets dropped?
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:41 PM
yeah I mean I'm not gonna like go download the video and separate it by frame but just from having the video at .25 speed it looks like simultaneous
yeah seems like there's a snapshot created on E cast that then gets referenced on Q cast for the gems that come from her E screen
that was like, the initial thing that I set out to document
because I've known that for months and I've seen other people mention it but it's not in the TCL anywhere which annoyed me
srlJun 24, 2021 12:41 PM
that's kinda neat
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:42 PM
and then I was looking at the TCL and realized that the finding that her Q doesn't snapshot doesn't account for that
yeah it's pretty interesting, makes me think that there's something about like creating an object left on field associated with snapshotting
that and the fact that like
xingqiu's hydro dmg bonus snapshots for his dmg reduction
but his stats in general don't snapshot for his Q dmg
srlJun 24, 2021 12:42 PM
hmm i suspect a simpler explanation might be that the gems gets created when E drops
and the Q simply grabs all gems on field
as oppose to check if construct exist then create extra gems
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
since his Q is one of very very few abilities that don't leave any kind of animation
that would also make sense
srlJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
could check if anything in config supports that
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
I am not a game designer
srlJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
neither am i haha, all just guessing here
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
and looking at genshin code makes me want to delete my existence
so I'm just saying shit tbh
srlJun 24, 2021 12:43 PM
but there has been enough cases i think for me to think (with no evidence) that stats are sort of "embedded" (if you will) with the object when the object is created
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:44 PM
yeah
the only exceptions I can think of are like
Eula's Q kind of leaves an object yeah?
that little sword you can see charging up
srlJun 24, 2021 12:44 PM
hmm, no im fairly sure that sword gets created at the end
i remember seeing that
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:44 PM
alright I don't know Eula much so
srlJun 24, 2021 12:44 PM
not what you see on screen but the actual damage object
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:45 PM
ah I see
that would actually explain it
srlJun 24, 2021 12:45 PM
i think that's how they got around eula snapshotting
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:45 PM
they probably intentionally created them as separate objects
to prevent some degree of bennett damage per screenshot stuff
or at least limit it
srlJun 24, 2021 12:46 PM
but let me check again and ill post it in tc-general
elijamJun 24, 2021 12:47 PM
yeah
I'm pretty much done writing this up so I'm gonna close this in a sec anyway
Theory/finding: Ningguang’s E screen snapshots her stats on cast, and with Q use her personal gems will snapshot on Q cast while her screen’s gems will use her screen’s earlier snapshotted stats. This finding corrects the previous TCL finding (https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/characters/geo/ningguang#ningguang-burst-does-not-snapshot) that Ningguang’s Q does not snapshot, since the evidence for that finding did not account for the gems from her screen not receiving the buff they were using to test for snapshotting.
Evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7c4zvk6wXs from elijam#7142
Initial gems directly from Ningguang deal 774 damage, while gems from her E screen deal only 231 damage, due to Ningguang receiving Bennett's buff after E cast and snapshot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocjfZ22VcHk from Isu#6867
Ningguang’s gems deal 129 on non crit, 203 on crit in an initial unbuffed reference cast. Ningguang receives Bennett buff, and then casts Q, losing Bennett buff after Q cast but while gems travel to target. Ningguang’s gems deal 861 on non crit, 1346 on crit despite losing Bennett buff before the gems connect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xph9HrOD5U and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowih1jXLpw from Ai#7362
First video shows Ningguang’s gems deal 441 on non crit, 1076 on crit in an initial unbuffed reference cast. Ningguang casts Q, then player pauses and eats an ATK boosting food while gems are still travelling to target. Ningguang’s gems deal 441 on non crit, 1076 on crit despite the ATK boost gained before gems connect. Second video shows Ningguang’s gems deal 492 on non crit, 1202 on crit with food buff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCJxmSsovM from Ai#7362
First run shows Ningguang cast E at one Lost Prayers stack, and Q at two. Personal gems deal 1545 on non crit, 3771 on crit. Gems from screen deal 1481 on non crit, 3616 on crit. Second run can be skipped. Third run shows Ningguang cast E (gem damage from screen difficult to see in this run, so not used as evidence for E screen snapshotting) and then cast Q while at two Lost Prayers stacks. Ningguang gains a third Lost Prayers stack while gems are still travelling to target, but gems still deal 1545 on non crit, 3771 on crit despite the Lost Prayers stack gained before gems connect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUenM2hrNLI and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRDh0k7wF6U from Bobrokrot#0111
Both videos show Ningguang with a 100% crit rate from a fully stacked Royal Grimoire. All gems from both her screen and herself crit, despite her losing the 100% crit rate after the first crit gem connects due to how the Royal weapons series passive operates.
Significance: Better rotation and team building for Ningguang surrounding setting up buffs for her E and her Q to snapshot.(edited)
elijam
Ning E gems no Bennett buff, other gems Bennett buff
@elijam can you upload the twitter videos to youtube
AiJun 25, 2021 5:15 PM
Do you mean my videos? Is there an easy way to get stuff from twitter to youtube?
AiJun 25, 2021 5:25 PM
Actually, I just linked my YT and reuploaded, will post unlisted video links here in a few minutes. Never done this before, lemme know if I messed something up lol
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