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KQM | Genshin Impact
weapon-stacking-and-ping
214 messages
Ticket Tool BOT Dec 8, 2021 1:59 AM
@NZPIEFACE - unforged stacks timing and ping dependency
As an author, It is your responsibility to complete the ticket
- Take advice constructively
- NO disrespectful behavior
- The ticket will be scrapped if: No activity > 1 week or open for > 1 mo.
- When done, type $close
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion
NZPIEFACE Dec 8, 2021 2:04 AM
Finding:
Weapons that gain stacks on hit are affected by ping. You will only gain stacks when the hit registers on the server, and the server will process hits at the same time, without caring about when the client actually made the hits.

Freedom Sworn, which gains its buffs from reactions happen, has normal behaviour.

Evidence:
Unforged: https://youtu.be/D2KBEtawfjM

Evidence from @Kolibri
MoD: https://youtu.be/JcrT5ZrA8O8
Elegy: https://youtu.be/fmdNtakdVpY
Pines: https://youtu.be/XQSgLpAuBTs
Mist: https://youtu.be/hg2OZp32mbY

Only one stack was gained despite the trigger condition being met multiple times.

Also from @Kolibri:
FS: https://youtu.be/T8_sCUahJRM (Not affected by ping.)

It gained stacks as normal.

Significance:
This isn't an issue for anyone with a stable connection, if someone's connection to the servers are rather spotty, this can cause them to lose stacks they would otherwise have.
(edited)
I would very much appreciate if someone could give evidence of this with MoD, SS, VV, and with the Millennial weapons (specifically Elegy and Pines).
┌─── reply to message (917960086104731689)
Kolibri Dec 8, 2021 8:21 AM
I tested it with some of those weapons and got the same results.
MoD: https://youtu.be/JcrT5ZrA8O8
Elegy: https://youtu.be/fmdNtakdVpY
Pines: https://youtu.be/XQSgLpAuBTs
(edited)
Kolibri
memory of dust stacks are affected by ping
Kolibri
elegy stacks are affected by ping
Kolibri
pines stacks are affected by ping
NZPIEFACE Dec 8, 2021 1:30 PM
@Kolibri thanks, i really appreciate the testing
NZPIEFACE Dec 11, 2021 1:13 PM
elijam Dec 11, 2021 1:15 PM
I think FS is more important to find here than VV or PJWS or anything, since we’ve never found any evidence those simple on hit ones operate differently in any way (edited)
NZPIEFACE Dec 11, 2021 1:16 PM
yeah, just asked in #tc-general for someone with fs to test this
elijam Dec 11, 2021 1:16 PM
although #915808783383556117 polar + mist + tpulse might be worth looking at?
NZPIEFACE Dec 11, 2021 1:16 PM
polarstar might actually be affected by this
elijam Dec 11, 2021 1:16 PM
yeah
and not the burst/skill stack for mist/pulse but the NA stack maybe (edited)
Kolibri Dec 12, 2021 10:12 AM
I tested FS and Mist.
FS stacks are not affected by ping (isn't this because of #917969257504047174?), while the Mist NA stack is affected by ping (Ayaka A4 as well as I noticed during the test)
FS: https://youtu.be/T8_sCUahJRM
Mist: https://youtu.be/hg2OZp32mbY
I could also record PJWS if needed.
(edited)
Kolibri
freedom-sworn stacks are not affected by ping
Kolibri
mistsplitter normal attack stack is affected by ping
ayaka a4 as well
┌─── reply to message (919532251727945771)
NZPIEFACE Dec 12, 2021 2:06 PM
thanks
and yes it is because of that, but it could also be super fucky which is why i wanted it tested
Vye Dec 14, 2021 12:02 PM
so
no one has polar star?
NZPIEFACE Dec 14, 2021 12:05 PM
apparently
anyways, what i need done for polarstar is:
Vye Dec 14, 2021 12:06 PM
yeah I don't need to understand what is going on
I can just be 🤖 and make footage
NZPIEFACE Dec 14, 2021 12:07 PM
start recording
open map, unplug internet cord
do the things you need to do to stack polar star (normal CA skill and burst)
see how many stacks you have
open map, plug internet cord back in
wait for enemy hp to go down/damage to be dealt
see how many stacks you have
stop recording
Vye Dec 14, 2021 12:08 PM
k
I'll get to it sometime this week
NZPIEFACE Dec 14, 2021 12:08 PM
all i need
Vye Dec 20, 2021 4:36 PM
@NZPIEFACE are you online?
I can't do the test for you
unless there is some trick
the moment I unplug my cable my game toggles connection
NZPIEFACE Dec 20, 2021 9:21 PM
it works for me when i unplug it with the map open
Vye Dec 21, 2021 10:31 AM
@NZPIEFACE I can try again but I already did that, for me it instantly starts toggling without internet
NZPIEFACE Dec 21, 2021 10:58 AM
weird
I'll try finding soneone else
┌─── reply to message (922805329958436884)
elijam Dec 23, 2021 3:36 AM
do you need a theoryhunt?
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 3:36 AM
prolly
elijam Dec 23, 2021 3:36 AM
ping me if you have one
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 3:40 AM
= Polar Star stacking w/ ping =

Difficulty: C

[Requirements]
- Polar Star
- Recording software
- Play Genshin using an ethernet cable

[Details]
- Start recording.
- Open the map and unplug your cable.
- Do the things required for Polar Star stacks. Check if you gained any stacks.
- Open the map and plug in your cable.
- Wait for damage to register. Check how many stacks were gained.
- Example video for Unforged: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2KBEtawfjM
- Post results in #weapon-stacking-and-ping

[Participants]
- No one so far.

[Commissioner]
- NZPIEFACE#8439

@elijam
(edited)
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 1:58 PM
I tried this and got this result. It probably doesn't help that plugging my cable back in requires complexity because the stupid thing doesn't plug in and out smoothly.

Initial stacking numbers for cross-referencing:
1. 347 (initial)
2. 382 (1 stack)
3. 417 (2 stack)
4. 451 (3 stack)
5. 514 (4 stack)

Evidence: https://imgur.com/GujzuYt

Results:
Inconsistent. I'm not sure if it's because I took too long to plug it back, or my connection took too long to reconnect or something, but I get an inconsistent number of stacks back. The only thing I can confirm is that stacks are dependent on ping, but I can't confirm how many stacks are dependent on ping. Hopefully this helps even if a little.

1 stack result
https://imgur.com/TLugu4E

2 stacks result
https://imgur.com/ObsX0QO
Initial Stacking Numbers
1 stack
2 stacks
Ultimate Noob Dec 23, 2021 2:31 PM
@NZPIEFACE why Ethernet cable? If their using a laptop can't they use airplane mode?
┌─── reply to message (923583635913867294)
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:08 PM
because wifi takes fucking forever to reconnect
┌─── reply to message (923575277374803978)
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:11 PM
fuck
thats all i can say when it comes to your evidence
Ultimate Noob Dec 23, 2021 7:12 PM
ALR
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:12 PM
there could be a lot of reasons why you got two stacks in
maybe the damage procs were a bit spread out
maybe it triggers the stacks as long as the numbers show up
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:19 PM
I'm not sure if I can stuff the cable in any faster
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:19 PM
and then stay up the hunt will
or just give me your account
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:21 PM
It's in Asia you might be facing more than just cable problems at that point
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:21 PM
dude i live in nz
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:21 PM
oh
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:21 PM
asia is the 2nd closest server
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:22 PM
nggh I don't know if I'm comfortable giving my account out I'm sorry
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:22 PM
yeah thats fine
it was just a joke
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:22 PM
I am also interested in the answer so I guess I'll just sit tight and wait for the results
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:24 PM
you could also try practicing plugging your cable back in
(but thats also probably the most worthless thing to practice (even though i did practice it))
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:25 PM
Valid practice tbh
I can try a bit
Okay I have an idea
I know my setup for that one (basically 0 arti Childe + Polar at LV1)
instead of doing what I did, I'll do the Polar opening (E > N1C > Ranged)
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:26 PM
>polar at lvl 1
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:26 PM
it should be fast enough
I...have reasons
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:26 PM
oh yeah, do that
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:26 PM
it's my second Polar don't worry
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:26 PM
you dont need to open up stat page without plugging into the net btw
just do it asap
Latiwings Dec 23, 2021 7:29 PM
Alright, I'll try it after sleep
or some form of rest at least
here's to praying it works....somehow
NZPIEFACE Dec 23, 2021 7:29 PM
o/
Kolibri Dec 24, 2021 10:00 AM
@NZPIEFACE here you go:
Sucrose Q gained 1 stack: https://youtu.be/sXLVwZmM4wc
Kolibri
memory of dust ping & stacks (sucrose Q only)
NZPIEFACE Dec 24, 2021 10:12 AM
Latiwings Dec 24, 2021 4:25 PM
Heads up on this I might have to do it a bit later cause, well (edited)
I forgot today is Christmas Eve
Well Christmas now Merry Christmas everyone reading this (edited)
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:42 AM
Alright, got to it. Tied a rubber band around my ethernet cable hook thing and practice plugging it in and out
3 vids
Method:
Childemains' Polar opening (E > N1C > Burst)

Result:
Consistent 4 stacks (THANK CHRISTMAS MIRACLES). So we can probably rule out the previous problems being the attacks too spread out. No stacks go through while still disconnected, stacks counted upon reconnection (Evidence A and C) (Because I forgot to open B's character still before reconnecting, kept it as evidence for 4 stacks)

All three vids shows 4 stacks result. A and C specifically shows no stacks gained while disconnected.

A
https://imgur.com/7dBOqVl

B
https://imgur.com/0SOj69h

C
https://imgur.com/LyzNKnG
(edited)
4 Stacks A
4 Stacks B
4 Stacks C
@NZPIEFACE
┌─── reply to message (924220559590584380)
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:47 AM
what the fuck
rubber band ping tech
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:48 AM
Genshin TC:
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:49 AM
wait
wait you get all 4 stacks
what the fuck is up with #polarstar-icd
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:49 AM
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:49 AM
there was a ticket
saying this had an icd
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:50 AM
I remember, but I'm not good enough to perform it faster than well, whetever that's above
Maybe the ICD is in milliseconds?
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:51 AM
I'm gonna slowly just
walk out
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:51 AM
@BowTae you did the verification on this right
wait no
it was eli and reens
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:51 AM
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:51 AM
whenever i see childe
"it was bowtae who worked on it right"
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:52 AM
Whatever I did was just Childemains' usual Polar opening so it would be stranger if we can't get 3 stacks minimum tbf
I have a cursed thought what if the fk up is due to the range stance switch
┌─── reply to message (924223043801341952)
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:53 AM
i think some people do ranged n1c -> e for burst set up i think?
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:53 AM
I can't say I'm familiar with that one but I won't be surprised, it's just this opening leads well into double VV so it's pretty solid
Maybe that's the speedrunning opening
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:56 AM
@Latiwings can you try ranged n1c e to see if you can get the polar star icd thing? and then seeing if you get 2 stacks w/ internet connected, and then seeing if you get 2 stacks without net?
you can come back to me on this in a few days
enjoy your christmas and new years
┌─── reply to message (924222633610993695)
D.....K Dec 25, 2021 8:57 AM
The ticket discussion for this said icd is 17 frames or when you arcc
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:58 AM
yeah but
dmg/hit is serverside (edited)
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 8:58 AM
I am genuinely unsure if I can pull it off ngl, I'm not good with fast but let's give it a go
game's still open
wait lemme go grab my rubber band
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 8:59 AM
actually lati
something else i want you to test before that
can you use polar star
fully charge an arrow from like the top of a hill
and then switch to melee before it hits?
just to see if ranged CA when in melee gives stacks
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:00 AM
do we need net for this one or no
or both
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:00 AM
yes
just net for now
because this kind of contradicts the prev polar star ticket
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:00 AM
alright let's do this
somehow
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:03 AM
im sorry for off loading childe tc onto you
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:09 AM
@NZPIEFACE Not only it works, but it gives two stacks cause it procs riptide
https://imgur.com/3uutLuB
Ranged to Melee Midway 2 stacks
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:09 AM
i hate this
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:09 AM
Ticket is now polar star shenanigans ticket
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:09 AM
ok what about not a fully charged arrow
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:09 AM
brb fam
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:10 AM
the only reason im caring about this is because its contradicting an existing ticket
so if i want to include this shit i need to have a reason why it contradicts that
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:14 AM
Non fully charged shot works but 1 stack
https://imgur.com/jM2yGoE
Ranged to Melee Midway 1 stack
@NZPIEFACE
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:15 AM
idfk anymore
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:15 AM
Meanwhile all I want to do is to complain to Mihoyo that Polar's stack indicator is by a bell chiming sound like how do you expect me to hear that in the middle of battle
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:15 AM
what else is there to even fucking test
do a trick shot so you land E swap damage on hte same frame as CA?
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:15 AM
That will take me years longer to practice than plugging and unplugging my ethernet cable
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:16 AM
i thought this was gonna be easy at first
"yeah maybe polar star stacks work like serpent spine, you only get 1 due to cooldown"
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:17 AM
I've heard legends of your cursed tickets
I thought this would be the least cursed of them all
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:17 AM
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:27 AM
Last news is no matter what I did I can't replicate the Polar Star ICD thing but I also don't think I'm good enough to even remotely come close to pulling it off
You'll need a more specific theory hunt for that one
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:28 AM
Latiwings Dec 25, 2021 9:31 AM
Polar Star ICD fail
The fastest I can go
Good luck
and Merry Christmas I guess (Polar in theme)
NZPIEFACE Dec 25, 2021 9:33 AM
merry xmas to you too
┌─── reply to message (924222815182417930)
BowTae Dec 25, 2021 5:34 PM
i didn't verify it, but I did post in the original ticket a video I had from trial childe showing that polar star didn't have ICD from my experience (edited)
don't think ticketbot saved it but I can try to go find it again
oh it is in there
trial childe has 1712 attack at 0 stacks, and 1871 at 2 stacks, so my clip with 1951 attack indicates 3 stacks
didn't show stats screen at the beginning, but he has no buff arrows, indicating no stacks at video start
(edited)
┌─── reply to message (924228524599046174)
BowTae Dec 25, 2021 6:43 PM
you didn't crit (i think) so you didn't apply riptide here, so no skill damage
┌─── reply to message (924371787310055515)
Latiwings Dec 26, 2021 12:17 AM
I can retry this around a few days later cause I'll be busy, but I think then at most the result would be like the fully charged shot one right? 2 stacks?
NZPIEFACE Dec 26, 2021 12:31 AM
well fuck this ngl
Finding:
Weapons that gain stacks on hit are affected by ping. You will only gain stacks when the hit registers on the server, and the server will process hits at the same time, without caring about when the client actually made the hits.

Freedom Sworn, which gains its buffs from reactions happen, has normal behaviour.

Polar Star behaves differently as it has individual stacks for each type, and will gain all the stacks at the same time when the hit is registered.

Evidence:
Unforged: https://youtu.be/D2KBEtawfjM

Evidence from @Kolibri:
MoD: https://youtu.be/JcrT5ZrA8O8
Elegy: https://youtu.be/fmdNtakdVpY
Pines: https://youtu.be/XQSgLpAuBTs
Mist: https://youtu.be/hg2OZp32mbY

Only one stack was gained despite the trigger condition being met multiple times.

Also from @Kolibri:
FS: https://youtu.be/T8_sCUahJRM (Not affected by ping.)

It gained stacks as normal.

Evidence from @Latiwings:
PS: https://imgur.com/7dBOqVl https://imgur.com/0SOj69h https://imgur.com/LyzNKnG

It gained all the stacks once connection to the server was restored, meaning that while gaining stacks is affected by ping, the number of stacks gained is not.
This result seems to contradict a previous ticket: https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/equipment/weapons#polar-star-has-icd-across-independent-stacks

Significance:
This isn't an issue for anyone with a stable connection, if someone's connection to the servers are rather spotty, this can cause them to lose stacks they would otherwise have.
Freedom Sworn doesn't change behaviour.
Polar Star works similarly fine, but there seems to be a contradiction with a previous entry on the library.
(edited)
!rm 24h close this
Carl-bot BOT Dec 26, 2021 12:37 AM
Alright NZPIEFACE, I'll remind you about close this in 1 day. ID: 32411035
┌─── reply to message (924455823252541540)
BowTae Dec 26, 2021 12:40 AM
yeah should be 2 stacks. Your other time when you did get 2 stacks should already indiciate that there's no polar star ICD though/it has a weird ICD
Latiwings Dec 26, 2021 1:01 AM
Wait that's true; if Polar Star has stack ICD, you would think Riptide Flash, the one that procs almost immediately on hit would face a problem getting stacks
that's not even a player skill anymore, it's an auto proc
NZPIEFACE Dec 26, 2021 1:02 AM
i'll be closing this
so if you really want to dig into polar star make a new ticket
Latiwings Dec 26, 2021 1:03 AM
Goodbye
Good luck to whoever taking it up, and thank you for the patience with me in this ticket
NZPIEFACE Dec 27, 2021 12:38 AM
@Latiwings btw if you want to explore the polar star icd more i suggest not using childe to figure it out
since yknow, other characters can do multiple types at once
Ticket Tool BOT Dec 27, 2021 12:38 AM
Ticket Closed by @112500541417857024
Support team ticket controls
Carl-bot BOT Dec 30, 2021 4:23 PM
Alright elijam, I'll remind you about give polar star th to latí in 3 days. ID: 32694259
elijam Dec 30, 2021 4:23 PM
!rm 3d give polar star th to lati (edited)
elijam Jan 2, 2022 10:21 AM
k!th @Latiwings
Keqing BOT Jan 2, 2022 10:21 AM
Added Wangsheng Theoryhunter to @178199901769826304!
elijam Jan 2, 2022 10:21 AM
get wet
Vye Jan 12, 2022 5:25 PM
verified from video evidence
CrazyWeke123 Jan 12, 2022 10:11 PM
verified
Ticket Tool BOT Jan 14, 2022 6:39 AM
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