0-dmg-attacks-and-weapon-stacks-on-hit | KQM Transcripts

KQM | Genshin Impact

0-dmg-attacks-and-weapon-stacks-on-hit

80 messages

Ticket ToolSun, May 29, 2022 at 08:22 PM

@kolibri._. - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 08:35 PM

Finding:
Some character abilities contain zero-damage attacks which can grant stacks for weapons such as Primordial Jade Winged-Spear, Summit Shaper, The Unforged, Vortex Vanquisher and Memory of Dust. They can also trigger Wolf's Gravestone's passive.
These attacks cannot trigger Fillet Blade's passive even though its description says "On hit" like Wolf's Gravestone's passive.

Evidence:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ie3SIUXvI2ME7LpRfiCc6p6WPBx9LIfH5AMVMAAHwS0/edit?usp=sharing
Fillet Blade passive: https://youtu.be/os9nK1hXo9g

Significance:
Characters can benefit from the stack granted by a zero-damage attack.
Examples:
- Raiden can gain a stack before her Burst deals damage. This is because of the zero-damage attack that happens towards the start of her Burst animation.
- Hu Tao can gain a stack by simply activating her E next to an enemy.

0 DMG Attacks & Weapon Stacks on Hit

main

Category,Character,Ability,Weapon,Video + Credit if provided by someone else,0 DMG Attack occurs when?,Some character abilities contain zero-damage attacks which can grant stacks for weapons such as Primordial Jade Winged-Spear, Summit Shaper, The Unforged, Vortex Vanquisher and Memory of D...

Fillet Blade passive does not get triggered by 0 dmg attacks

0:00 Ayaka Converted NA + Dash
0:37 Jean Hold E

still need to gather more evidence

Delectable | N2J EnjoyerSun, May 29, 2022 at 08:38 PM

Ayo pjws raiden and hutao users are winning

LeahSun, May 29, 2022 at 09:05 PM

id like to add that holding jean e at c1 will repeatedly stack summit

Leah: id like to add that holding jean e at c1 will repeatedly stack summit

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 09:05 PM

thanks, I'll add that to the sheet

LeahSun, May 29, 2022 at 09:08 PM

im not sure about ayaka/mona dash but they do count as 0 damage attacks iirc

dont have any of these weps though

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 09:09 PM

also added that

LeahSun, May 29, 2022 at 09:15 PM

i think they should be tested first

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 09:39 PM

I'll record Sucrose with Memory of Dust tomorrow, but for the other stuff that needs evidence I need help. So if anyone wants to record evidence for any of the missing entries, I'd appreciate it.

xreejanSun, May 29, 2022 at 10:21 PM

@kolibri._.
https://youtu.be/pC-LH05C5Pg
Diluc Unforged
the evidence is in the description

Diluc Q 0 dmg attack grants Unforged stack

0 Stack Damage (Non Crit):
204% * ( ( Char. ATK 89.97 + Weapon ATK 45.94 ) * ( 100% + Weapon ATK 10.8% + Art. ATK 5.3% ) + Art. ATK 46.69 ) * ( Char. Level 20 + 100 ) / ( Char. Level 20 + 100 + Enemy Level 85 + 100 ) * ( 100% - 10% ) = 147.66

1 Stack Damage (Non Crit):
204% * ( ( Char. ATK 89.97 + Weapon ATK 45.94 ) * ( 100% + Weapon ATK 10...

xreejan: @kolibri._.

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 10:23 PM

thanks 👍

1

for the geo weapon series I think it's sufficient to show that you gained a stack from the zero-damage attack, no need for a calc

like it's visible right here

1

xreejanSun, May 29, 2022 at 10:25 PM

i just copied it from GO

kolibri._.Sun, May 29, 2022 at 10:26 PM

https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/combat-mechanics/damage/other/zero-damage-attacks#properties-of-0-damage-attacks
hmm this ticket is already kinda covered by this, when I look at the evidence provided for "They hit"

guhuあMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:14 AM

First

nzpiefaceMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:14 AM

@kolibri._. i have a question, how is this different from whats being covered in #on-hit-means-on-field and that previous ticket?

im pretty sure that on damage and on hit are similar triggers and that you can logically reason that on hit can happen without on damage

nzpieface: @kolibri._. i have a question, how is this different from whats being covered in #on-hit-means-on-field and that previous ticket?

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 06:15 AM

I guess if anything it would be documenting most zero-damage attacks and when they give a stack

daibangdenMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:15 AM

you can test 0 dmg attack with Qiqi's burst i believe

👌1

nzpiefaceMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:15 AM

yep

daibangdenMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:16 AM

i don't have Tpulse nor polar star but Yoi's E should count as one too, idk if she will gain any stack though

nzpieface: @kolibri._. i have a question, how is this different from whats being covered in #on-hit-means-on-field and that previous ticket?

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 06:21 AM

if you're telling me that this ticket is already fully covered by what's in the tcl I could nuke/close this ticket

nzpiefaceMon, May 30, 2022 at 06:24 AM

not up to me

up to you and scholars

im pretty sure this isnt evident to most people so im fine with it being its own ticket

👌1

daibangden: i don't have Tpulse nor polar star but Yoi's E should count as one too, idk if she will gain any stack though

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 09:14 AM

both tpulse and polar star specify certain types of attacks in their description, so you won't gain a stack

kolibri._.: Finding:

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 12:11 PM

I added some more videos

paichlearMon, May 30, 2022 at 03:07 PM

the ticket is fine, the other one says most 0 dmg attacks don't have talent tags and it's good to have an exhaustive list of weapon passives in case there are any exceptions

1

Delectable | N2J EnjoyerMon, May 30, 2022 at 03:42 PM

when you have literally 0 of the weapons needed for testing on this ticket

tbh since this ticket is similar in scope to the #on-hit-means-on-field ticket, i really do think it should be a theoryhunt

unless you wanna do everything by yourself and a couple of people who actually browse ticket walls koli

paichlear: the ticket is fine, the other one says most 0 dmg attacks don't have talent tags and it's good to have an exhaustive list of weapon passives in case there are any exceptions

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 03:43 PM

There are two more weapons which don't specify what type of hits trigger the passive:
- Fillet Blade says "On hit"
- Skyward Harp says "Hits"
I've tried Xingqiu Orbital/Jean Hold E for Fillet Blade and I couldn't get it to proc. For Harp I tried Ganyu Q a bunch of times and it didn't proc on cast. Would 1 trial with Xingqiu Orbitals and 10 trials for Ganyu Q be enough evidence to prove that? (tbh I can't prove that Ganyu Q has a zero damage attack without resorting to certain sources

)

Delectable | N2J EnjoyerMon, May 30, 2022 at 03:44 PM

i literally have ganyu Q against primogeovishap like 50 times using skyward

and i dont think i've ever seen skyward harp proc on the supposed 0 damage hit

ygg2755Mon, May 30, 2022 at 03:56 PM

Is it consistent with the immunity?
TCL has that harp doesn't proc on immune, it's under Childe if that helps

Delectable | N2J Enjoyer: tbh since this ticket is similar in scope to the #on-hit-means-on-field ticket, i really do think it should be a theoryhunt

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 04:03 PM

I have someone that can record a good chunk of the stuff, so I'll set up the theory hunt after that

1

ygg2755: Is it consistent with the immunity?

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 05:01 PM

maybe those weapons require more than 0 dmg to proc? that would explain why it doesn't work

ygg2755Mon, May 30, 2022 at 05:04 PM

Harp doesn't proc but Atlas does (everyone knows the Barbara vs oceanid videos)

That's my 2 cents on why this ticket is fine. The game itself doesn't make it clear what counts 0 damage attacks and what doesn't.

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 05:11 PM

kolibri._.: There are two more weapons which don't specify what type of hits trigger the passive:

paichlearMon, May 30, 2022 at 05:59 PM

if the proc chance is either 0% or 100% that's enough trials, it's not like there's any rng involved (unless there is

)

paichlear: if the proc chance is either 0% or 100% that's enough trials, it's not like there's any rng involved (unless there is

kolibri._.Mon, May 30, 2022 at 06:21 PM

Ok I'll record Fillet Blade, but Harp is already in the TCL

kolibri._.: There are two more weapons which don't specify what type of hits trigger the passive:

nzpiefaceTue, May 31, 2022 at 12:43 AM

btw you should prolly clearly define a few categories of 0 damage attacks and how to get them, so people can test them properly without being confused

kolibri._.Tue, June 7, 2022 at 09:26 AM

I've added a bunch of videos and evidence for Fillet Blade not getting triggered by 0 dmg attacks.
The only things missing are:

Summit Shaper:
Albedo Q
Ayaka Dash (can I just link to https://youtu.be/Pv1hSE71TcA for this one?)
Kazuha Tap E + Plunge
Kazuha Hold E + Plunge
Kazuha Q
Qiqi Q

Vortex Vanquisher:
Hu Tao E

And this would be the theoryhunt:

= 0 Damage Attacks and Weapon Stacks On Hit =

[Difficulty]
idk, probably D

[Requirements]
- Have Summit Shaper for one (or more) of the following characters:
-- Albedo
-- Ayaka
-- Kazuha 
-- Qiqi
- Or have Vortex Vanquisher for:
-- Hu Tao
- Be able to record

[Details]
- Look at the sheet linked in #0-dmg-attacks-and-weapon-stacks-on-hit to see which ability to record.
-- Start recording.
-- Use the ability right next to an enemy. (For Albedo and Qiqi: Stand close to a wall to cancel the burst cutscene.)
-- End recording.
-- Make sure that the stack gain is visible.

[Participants]
- Could be you

[Commissioner]
- Kolibri#7675

nzpieface: btw you should prolly clearly define a few categories of 0 damage attacks and how to get them, so people can test them properly without being confused

kolibri._.Tue, June 7, 2022 at 09:27 AM

I added categories, hopefully they're clear enough?

is_this_maddieTue, June 7, 2022 at 09:48 AM

aww I have vv but no tao :(

nzpiefaceTue, June 7, 2022 at 12:14 PM

seems clear enough to me

23.Wed, June 8, 2022 at 04:48 AM

Doesn't Qiqi Q do damage though? It has a skill dmg scaling in the talent description

23.: Doesn't Qiqi Q do damage though? It has a skill dmg scaling in the talent description

nzpiefaceWed, June 8, 2022 at 05:23 AM

its asking for talisman

talisman can proc the healing effect even when you dont do damage

such as immune hits, hits against shields, mona/ayaka dash, tao's E stance knockback, etc.

23.Wed, June 8, 2022 at 05:33 AM

In that case, why is it asking for SS for Qiqi?

If it only needs Qiqi it seems like the theoryhunt should be phrased a bit differently

nzpiefaceWed, June 8, 2022 at 05:55 AM

23.: Doesn't Qiqi Q do damage though? It has a skill dmg scaling in the talent description

kolibri._.Wed, June 8, 2022 at 07:00 AM

Qiqi Q applies the Talisman status before dealing damage. I want to see whether that Talisman application grants you a stack on Summit Shaper, because that weapon doesn't care about what type of attack hits.

Even if an ability deals damage, it can contain a 0 dmg attack. See the Eula Q video(s) for example.

TiBotMon, June 27, 2022 at 09:45 PM

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

3

vinsetteSat, July 9, 2022 at 05:33 PM

@kolibri._.

kolibri._.: And this would be the theoryhunt:

kolibri._.Sat, July 9, 2022 at 05:33 PM

can some scholar put this up as a theoryhunt?

kolibri._.: can some scholar put this up as a theoryhunt?

TibotSun, July 10, 2022 at 01:42 PM

Put it up - I can't ping and I haven't made the bot ping that role until the older theoryhunts are cleaned up/added

kolibri._.: And this would be the theoryhunt:

crown impoverishedMon, July 11, 2022 at 12:22 AM

question about kazuha: how do i know if its the 0 dmg hit or the normal skill dmg, optimizer and see if its 0 or 1 stack dmg or what

kolibri._.: And this would be the theoryhunt:

crown impoverishedMon, July 11, 2022 at 12:49 AM

https://imgur.com/a/Q1NssbK i'll redo qiqi later for a cleaner clip if you'd like but here is all the requested footage and optimizer for Kazuha/Qiqi, showing kazuha 0dmg hit does not give him a stack but Qiqi burst does in fact grant a stack. Also worth noting, the gap between qiqi's 0 dmg hit and actual dmg hit is enough for her burst to generate 2 stacks

crown impoverished: https://imgur.com/a/Q1NssbK i'll redo qiqi later for a cleaner clip if you'd like but here is all the requested footage and optimizer for Kazuha/Qiqi, showing kazuha 0dmg hit does not give him a stack but Qiqi burst does in fact grant a stack. Also worth noting, the gap between qiqi's 0 dmg hit and actual dmg hit is enough for her burst to generate 2 stacks

kolibri._.Mon, July 11, 2022 at 12:59 PM

thanks for the footage. seems clear enough to me, so you don't have to rerecord unless you want to. footage at higher resolution/without stuff obstructing the stacks would be nice tho (you can see the 1st stack gain before q dmg in the albedo video and in the qiqi video you can clearly tell that before pressing q she had 0 stacks and then 2 stacks after q is over, so that's ok)
I'll not include kazuha e + plunge in the sheet, because I'm only including abilities that have a 0 dmg attack granting a stack. kazuha q does have a 0 dmg attack granting a stack (not on cast, but before his DoT does dmg like you showed in the video)

TiBotMon, July 18, 2022 at 01:00 PM

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

kolibri._.Mon, July 18, 2022 at 01:39 PM

welp I suppose it's time to close this then

for the theory hunt in case it's needed:
Xreejan#1180
Phana#0420

TiBotMon, July 18, 2022 at 01:44 PM

Ticket closed by @kolibri._.. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

Ticket verified by @artdidntwork

@Tibot added @xreejan as contributor

itzsomebody | chrisSat, July 23, 2022 at 12:24 AM

@kolibri._. looked through everything except AMC Q because

no Q in video. everything but that looks good though
feel free to ping once thats swapped out and i'll slap that verify button

TiBotSat, July 23, 2022 at 06:32 AM

Ticket verified by @itzsomebody | chris

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