Server Icon
KQM | Genshin Impact
crystallize-icd
65 messages
Avatar
Ticket ToolTue, April 19, 2022 at 07:46 AM
@Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin Academy - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

Guidelines
- Name your ticket with $rename <ticket name>
- When you are ready to submit the ticket, compile everything into one message following the format below. Then type $close or click the button; the ticket will automatically be moved to be reviewed.
- The ticket will be scrapped if: No activity >1 week or open for >1 month.
Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyTue, April 19, 2022 at 07:47 AM
There is a number of things I find wrong about Ningguang's ICD in the TCL, the aim of this ticket is to figure out what exactly her ICD's are.
First off, while testing I encountered a bug.

Here Amber applies 2U (1.6B) Pyro, then Ningguang launches 3 NAs in quick succession (6 hits total), triggering a total of 1 Crystallize. Expected aura duration is 8.25 seconds (7.5*1.1B) for 1U Crystallize or 12 seconds for 0 reactions. The aura persisted for a total of 13 seconds.
https://youtu.be/KzhmX0Jva8Y
Here is the same test but without a bug, the aura persisted for a total of ~8.25 seconds.
https://youtu.be/6nRXYxMkC_Y
Here Ningguang triggers 2nd Crystallize on the 4th NA (8 hits) which happens to be 2.5s after the 1st NA hit.
My theory currently is that it her NA ICD is 2.5 seconds with no hit counter.
https://youtu.be/U6bePlkRUA8
I've heard somewhere that Crystallize may be subject to 2.5 seconds global ICD. This is not the case for Albedo.
https://youtu.be/R8lUh_CBDoQ
Not the case for Ningguang either. Her NA and CA do not share ICD, and they are less than 2.5 seconds apart.
https://youtu.be/KlFSHFH-_Ag
Ningguang E does not have ICD though
https://youtu.be/x5uLSOgbT34
2B Pyro into Ningguang + Albdeo E proc. Only 1 Crystallize occured (~8.25 seconds of pyro).
https://youtu.be/x_64sntdO-g
Albedo E cast, then E proc in less than 1 sec. Only 1 Crystallize.
https://youtu.be/mmeOsWplHms
renaming to crystallize icd
$crystallize icd
So global ICD is a thing, why is it not in the TCL. :keqewide:
You can do triple crystallize, so it is not shared across targets.
https://youtu.be/S1GSVLXmGus
So my theory is that Crystallize reaction has a global cooldown that is shared across different characters but is not shared across different targets. The cooldown is 1 seconds.

It doesn't explain why Ningguang NAs can't cause the 2nd crystallize in 6 hits. It somehow messes up the hit counter if her ICD is indeed standard.
Additional evidence for 1s was in #tcl-resources-updates
Finding: Itto E's ICD is 1s.

Evidence: 1) 2nd E hits after about 41 frames after 1st E, no crystallize.
https://youtu.be/hAALkzc5VPs

2) 2nd E hits after about 73 frames after 1st E, crystallize does occur.
https://youtu.be/8f1A22DHqnU
Finding: Gorou's E ICD is 1s.

Evidence: 1) 2nd E hits after about 54 frames after 1st E, no crystallize.
https://youtu.be/rBKZPjxivzM

2) 2nd E hits after about 76 frames after 1st E, crystallize does occur.
https://youtu.be/Gj8RIKWs-Vk
Avatar
daibangdenTue, April 19, 2022 at 09:52 AM
i believe Carrier has something about this in #theorycrafting , you can try asking him or backread a bit
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyTue, April 19, 2022 at 10:35 AM
@carrier5by5 could you please explain how global cooldown of crystallize works?
Avatar
paichlearTue, April 19, 2022 at 12:51 PM
because apparently no one has made a ticket about it yet
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyThu, April 21, 2022 at 01:21 PM
Gotta framecount above evidence to confirm that. I will not have time to do it for a while though.
Still not clear exactly what's going on with Ningguang.
Might want to test on shields, should not make a difference but you never know.
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademySat, April 30, 2022 at 06:09 PM
V Rising beta ended yesterday so probably soon. :AYAYAKA:
keqhmmok1
I think i need to learn macros and test icd by applying geo with a 0.85 to 1.05s delay. :keqhmm:
Avatar
paichlearTue, May 3, 2022 at 03:52 PM
i put 0.85s and 1.05s in the macro but it ended up being 0.9s and 1.1s according to the input overlay :ZhongliConcern: https://youtu.be/nQxtiWZ70BA
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyTue, May 3, 2022 at 03:54 PM
I meant to test a bunch of delays from 0.85 to 1.05, like 0.85, 0.9, 0.95, 1.00, 1.05.
The only one we need to catch really is 0.95.
To determine if it's really 0.9s or 1.0s. So far it seems to me that it has to be 1.0s.
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyTue, May 3, 2022 at 04:54 PM
Thank you. So it seems it's 1s after all.
I'll do a write-up tomorrow then.
Still have no idea what's with Ning though.
Avatar
nzpiefaceTue, May 3, 2022 at 11:06 PM
regarding ning and her NA/E icd thing... wtf? so im assuming it doesnt and the first time issues cropped it it was due to crystallize icd?

:derpfei:
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyWed, May 4, 2022 at 02:55 PM
Theory: Crystallize reaction has an Global Cooldown of 1s per monster.

Evidence: 1) https://youtu.be/MiUnN2hvYJg
Albedo uses his elemental skill twice at different time intervals between skill usages. Due to input delay all of the below times are actually +0.05s.
— 0.85s (1 Crystallize)
— 0.90s (1 Crystallize)
— 0.95s (1 Crystallize)
— 1.00s (2 Crystallize)
— 1.05s (2 Crystallize)
This evidence suggests that the Crystallize GCD is 1.0s (or Albedo skill cast itself has ICD of 1s).

2) 1s GCD does exist and influences attacks that do not share ICD.
2A) Albedo's E cast and E Blossom both trigger Crystallize when they are 1s apart from each other https://youtu.be/R8lUh_CBDoQ
2B) Albedo's E cast and E Blossom trigger Crystallize only once when they are within 1s https://youtu.be/mmeOsWplHms
2C) Ningguang's NA and E both trigger Crystallize when they are 1s apart from each other https://youtu.be/iefXbzTAyzM
2D) Ningguang's NA and E trigger Crystallize only once when they are within 1s https://youtu.be/5EMMlZNFAFM

3) GCD is shared across different characters. Here Ningguang procs Albedo's Blossom vs 2B Pyro, only 1 Crystallize occured https://youtu.be/x_64sntdO-g

4) GCD is not shared across different targets. Here Albedo succesfully triggers Crystallize on each of the 3 hilichurls https://youtu.be/S1GSVLXmGus

5) GCD for the duration of the cooldown may disable the hit counter for standard ICD. Here Ningguang uses 3 Normal attacks (6 hits total) and trigger Crystallize only once on the first attack. https://youtu.be/6nRXYxMkC_Y

6) GCD is shared across different elements. Here Albedo triggers Pyro and Hydro Crystallize one after another (<1s), only 1 Crystallize occured.
https://youtu.be/M4XJPag4CNI
Bug: Crystallize reaction can sometimes yield an unexpected amount of gauge reduction.

Evidence: Here Amber applies 2U (1.6B) Pyro, then Ningguang launches 3 NAs in quick succession (6 hits total), triggering a total of 1 Crystallize. Expected aura duration is 8.25 seconds (7.5*1.1B) for 1U Crystallize or 12 seconds for 0 reactions. The aura persisted for a total of 13 seconds.
https://youtu.be/KzhmX0Jva8Y

Significance: it is currently not known how to reproduce this bug and it it not known what exactly causes this bug but documenting it helps to figure the cause in the future.
Avatar
Ticket ToolWed, May 4, 2022 at 03:13 PM
Ticket Closed by @Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin Academy
Avatar
blaahWed, May 4, 2022 at 04:42 PM
maybe its because the grass under the ruin guard started burning when amber shot a ca and that applied pyro again?:hmm:
Avatar
nzpiefaceWed, May 4, 2022 at 06:46 PM
something that wasnt tested was if the global cooldown applies to all crystallize reactions or only of that specific element
i think a test could be done by apply electro to an enemy in water and then trying to trigger crystallize as fast as possible
Avatar
Ticket ToolThu, May 5, 2022 at 04:51 PM
Ticket Opened by @Weke | Knave Enjoyer
Avatar
Weke | Knave EnjoyerThu, May 5, 2022 at 04:51 PM
@Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin Academy :thumbsUp:
love1
Avatar
Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin AcademyThu, May 5, 2022 at 04:54 PM
I've edited the write-up and included it. Turns out GCD does apply to all elements.
thumbup1
Avatar
Ticket ToolThu, May 5, 2022 at 04:54 PM
Ticket Closed by @Bobrokrot [RU] Genshin Academy
Support team ticket controls
Avatar
soloqwertyuiopSun, May 8, 2022 at 12:24 PM
while it taking 13 seconds for 1.1U to decay doesn't line up with B decay rate which should have made it take 8.25 seconds, it taking 13 seconds DOES line up with A decay rate(11.875 x 1.1=13.0625).

i don't have any idea why the decay rate in the bug video above would be A, it can be pointed out that at the start of the video the ruin guard already has a pyro aura, therefore it already has a decay rate, but i have no idea either why that would be A.

here is bennett applying 2B(taxed to 1.6B) around 0:09 on youtube slider, hit with 1 crystallize proc from ningguang's 1U normal attack, with the pyro aura being gone slightly after 0:17 on youtube slider, which just about lines up with the expected 8.25 decay time of 1.1B (my pc is not good enough for high quality, sorry) https://youtu.be/otUdCof1JF8

here is guoba applying an A decay rate, bennett's 2U e turning that into 1.6A near the end of 0:09 and dmg text showing up on 0:10, hit with 1 proc of crystallize from ningguang's 1u normal attack, with the pyro aura being gone around 0:23 of the youtube slider, which just about lines up with the expected 13.0625 of 1.1A https://youtu.be/GeS-DZHlDTE
..tho i guess this is more about that decay bug thing than crystallize icd itself huh
Avatar
nzpiefaceWed, May 11, 2022 at 05:43 AM
wait does amber c1 have a 1U gauge :derpfei:
no way right
Avatar
soloqwertyuiopWed, May 11, 2022 at 11:03 AM
i mean
yes it does
heck it's even recorded in the tcl
Avatar
daibangdenWed, May 11, 2022 at 12:13 PM
no it's not :derpfei:
but i remember testing it long time ago and it was 1u
Avatar
soloqwertyuiopWed, May 11, 2022 at 01:06 PM
it do be here, though true the character page itself doesn't have it :pepela: and can't find any linked evidence either..hm..oh well
unknown.png
Avatar
daibangdenThu, May 12, 2022 at 03:48 AM
oh it is, my bad
Avatar
nzpiefaceThu, May 12, 2022 at 04:44 AM
yeah
that explains the vid
Avatar
paichlearWed, May 25, 2022 at 02:37 AM
verified, the bug can just be left out of the pr since amber is c1 in the video. this makes sense: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/763610791839924224/972853209699856404
Avatar
charliex3000Fri, June 10, 2022 at 05:02 PM
verified
Avatar
TiBotWed, June 29, 2022 at 05:54 PM
Creating transcript...