KQM | Genshin Impact
damage-reduction-mechanics
63 messages
Ticket ToolMon, June 6, 2022 at 11:57 AM
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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
f99shiMon, June 6, 2022 at 12:20 PM
Finding: The damage reduction stat is NOT its own multiplier. Instead, it reduces the damage bonus of incoming attacks.
Evidence: We all know kairagi in the aggro animation and frostarm lawachurls in their berserk state reduce the damage bonus of incoming attacks by 80%.
For example my yelan with 0% physical damage bonus and 46.6% hydro damage bonus does 10798 breakthrough barb and 1247 physical aimed shot normally, and while the kairagi is in the aggro animation they do 4905 and 249 respectively, both having their damage bonuses reduced by 80%.https://youtu.be/yHHGFPA2SgQ
The exact same happens with frostarm lawachurls but I assume you guys already have evidence on this.
So having said the above, I went into the source code and found that both the kairagi and the frostarm lawachurl have
So now we know that character damage reductions are the exact same thing as kairagi/ice monkey damage reductions, which subtracts a fixed amount from the attacker's damage bonus instead of adding a separate multiplier. The reason why we mistakenly thought it added a separate multiplier was because enemies always have 0% damage bonus, and we didn't know that kairagi/ice monkey actually had the same type of damage reduction.
In conclusion, the actual formula for damage reduction multiplier should be the one written here: https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Reduction
Significance: Corrects a huge mistake in our assumption of how damage reduction worked.
Also, with the real damage reduction formula, we know that the higher the attacker's damage bonus, the less effective damage reduction is, which might be helpful when fighting frostarm lawachurls. For example a shim hu tao likely performs better than a crimson hu tao, and a electro cup raiden likely performs better than an atk cup raiden. But of course it will vary by case. Although i guess we already knew this.
Evidence: We all know kairagi in the aggro animation and frostarm lawachurls in their berserk state reduce the damage bonus of incoming attacks by 80%.
For example my yelan with 0% physical damage bonus and 46.6% hydro damage bonus does 10798 breakthrough barb and 1247 physical aimed shot normally, and while the kairagi is in the aggro animation they do 4905 and 249 respectively, both having their damage bonuses reduced by 80%.https://youtu.be/yHHGFPA2SgQ
The exact same happens with frostarm lawachurls but I assume you guys already have evidence on this.
So having said the above, I went into the source code and found that both the kairagi and the frostarm lawachurl have
"Actor_SubHurtDelta": 0.8 handling their damage reductions, which is the exact same as xingqiu, beidou etc.'s damage reductions, as shown in the screenshots.So now we know that character damage reductions are the exact same thing as kairagi/ice monkey damage reductions, which subtracts a fixed amount from the attacker's damage bonus instead of adding a separate multiplier. The reason why we mistakenly thought it added a separate multiplier was because enemies always have 0% damage bonus, and we didn't know that kairagi/ice monkey actually had the same type of damage reduction.
In conclusion, the actual formula for damage reduction multiplier should be the one written here: https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Damage_Reduction
Significance: Corrects a huge mistake in our assumption of how damage reduction worked.
Also, with the real damage reduction formula, we know that the higher the attacker's damage bonus, the less effective damage reduction is, which might be helpful when fighting frostarm lawachurls. For example a shim hu tao likely performs better than a crimson hu tao, and a electro cup raiden likely performs better than an atk cup raiden. But of course it will vary by case. Although i guess we already knew this.
Ticket ToolMon, June 6, 2022 at 12:21 PM
Ticket Closed by @f99shi
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aeveanleeowMon, June 6, 2022 at 12:45 PM
ah i wasnt aware enemies other than lawachurl had DR
verified
makeway4pkMon, June 6, 2022 at 05:38 PM
cool
nzpiefaceMon, June 6, 2022 at 09:09 PM
this makes me think that SS is just mona'ing ourselves
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vinsetteFri, June 10, 2022 at 05:59 PM
alararSat, June 11, 2022 at 09:32 PM
So I just want to make sure I understand this correctly, because I'm about to make some substantial changes to my own calculator due to this result.
The previous setup is:
Incoming Damage = (Outgoing Damage) * (Enemy Defense Reduction) * (Enemy Resistance Reduction),
where (Outgoing Damage) is a function that included, among other things, the term (100% + DMG%),
and Mona Burst's Omen "DMG Bonus" was part of the sum that makes up DMG%.
What you're saying now is:
Incoming Damage = (Outgoing Damage) * (Enemy Defense Reduction) * (Enemy Resistance Reduction) * (Enemy Damage Reduction),
where Enemy Damage Reduction = (100% + DMG% - Enemy_DMG_Reduction% + Increase_DMG_Taken%) / (100% + DMG%),
and Mona's Burst's effect would be in the Increase_DMG_Taken% term?
The previous setup is:
Incoming Damage = (Outgoing Damage) * (Enemy Defense Reduction) * (Enemy Resistance Reduction),
where (Outgoing Damage) is a function that included, among other things, the term (100% + DMG%),
and Mona Burst's Omen "DMG Bonus" was part of the sum that makes up DMG%.
What you're saying now is:
Incoming Damage = (Outgoing Damage) * (Enemy Defense Reduction) * (Enemy Resistance Reduction) * (Enemy Damage Reduction),
where Enemy Damage Reduction = (100% + DMG% - Enemy_DMG_Reduction% + Increase_DMG_Taken%) / (100% + DMG%),
and Mona's Burst's effect would be in the Increase_DMG_Taken% term?
nzpiefaceSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:00 PM
ok im failing to see how anything changed here
i have no idea why the wiki has
1/(100% + DMG%) as part of the Enemy Damage Reduction since it has x (100% + DMG%) as part of outgoing damagealararSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:27 PM
Probably because KQM library has the outgoing damage having the term (1+DamageBonus), which I presume is before we found out monsters have damage reduction?
Because it's not really "outgoing damage" if the damage then gets reduced by the monster's damage reduction
nzpiefaceSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:29 PM
the library doesnt use outgoing damage for its terminology
the library doesnt use outgoing damage for its terminologyalararSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:29 PM
nzpiefaceSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:29 PM
i was looking at the formula itself
mfw
i was looking at the formula itselfyeah just ignore that
nothing really changes
alararSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:30 PM
yeah but it means I have to reorganize my excel columns because i've been calculating outgoing damage then applying enemy resistances/etc
nzpiefaceSat, June 11, 2022 at 10:31 PM
yeah, you'll need to change stuff then
TiBotFri, June 24, 2022 at 04:36 PM
Ticket verified by @aeveanleeow
f99shiWed, June 29, 2022 at 11:38 AM
where is that 
f99shiWed, June 29, 2022 at 11:43 AM
hm its just modifying the dmg bonus multiplier as part of incoming dmg right? cuz thats what dmg reduction does
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:42 AM
i honestly think its best if you think of every attack as smth that takes into account three things at the same time, the character that originated the attack, the attack itself and the snapshotted stats, and the enemy it is hitting
f99shiThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:03 AM
yeah i also dislike splitting it into outgoing and incoming dmg especially with dmg reduction directly modifying dmg%
at least the formula on the wiki is technically correct, i might reformat it later
n TCL is still wrong 
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:37 PM
also can we just get this ticket verified instead of talking about it more
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which page?
im looking at the damage formula page and it seems right
actually what part
also can we just get this ticket verified instead of talking about it more1f99shiThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:10 PM
the damage formula page straight up doesnt have damage reduction 
unless im fucking stupid
also am i dumb or is there no way to see the full thing 
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:17 PM
its an issue with the screen and formatting
f99shiThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM
yeah this should be 1+dmgbonus-dmgreduction
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM
what should be updated is that "damage bonus" should also include the enemy's damage reduction
yeah
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM
so gotta wait for ticket to be verified
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM
but nz you can verify 
nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM
yeah but i also didnt look at the calcs
f99shiThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:19 PM
sm1 needs to add an option to hide the toc
i have to manually make the window smaller to hide the toc and see the full formula 
TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 01:20 PM
gitbooks 
eriri🌸Mon, July 18, 2022 at 01:37 AM
upload video evidence to youtube/imgur pls 
f99shiMon, July 18, 2022 at 05:25 AM
eriri🌸Mon, July 18, 2022 at 11:00 PM
should update/edit the finding with the link too
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BabelTea DO YOU KYOTOTue, July 19, 2022 at 01:35 PM
fat fatui in armored state work differently or the same 
aeveanleeowWed, July 20, 2022 at 05:08 AM
they just have a lot of res
not dr
like +100% res or so
carrier5by5Wed, July 20, 2022 at 06:24 AM
For Mona burst, it gives minus Damage Reduction.
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For Cryo Lawachurl, it has minus damage increase for incoming damage when it had a shield.
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TiBotFri, July 22, 2022 at 11:30 PM
Ticket verified by @eriri🌸
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