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KQM | Genshin Impact
guoba-c1-procs-via-burgeon
246 messages
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TiBotSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:34 AM
@Rathalos | I will finish it - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:37 AM
:keqomegalul:
yoooooo
reactions have talent tags
who wouldve knew
if only someone finished my ticket
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:38 AM
bro
your ticket was on sac
:OMEGALUL:
Finding:
Xiangling's first Constellation, Crispy Outside, Tender Inside, can affect enemies without Guoba hitting them directly, as long as they are hit by certain transformative reactions triggered by Guoba.

Evidence:

Yanfei NA DMG on Ruin Guard :
256 (non-crit)
577 (crit)
292 (non-crit w/ XL C1)
https://youtu.be/EviQbHWkF1s [Burgeon]

Yanfei NA DMG on Pyro Fungi :
224 (non-crit)
266 (non-crit w/ XL C1)
https://youtu.be/JWUAJ7tdRYM [Overload]

Debuff goes through even if target doesn't take damage:
https://youtu.be/P0SySNJtvlA

Significance:
Knowing more about properties radiating via transformative reactions, some niche uses in Overload teams where the Pyro shred can matter.
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: your ticket was on sac
nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:38 AM
DUDE
DUDE THE FUCKING PURPOSE SECTION OF THE HUNT SAID
THIS IS TO SEE IF REACTIONS HAVE TALENT TAGS
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:38 AM
:ohno:
well if u have more stuff
i can test if u can
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:38 AM
IF ONLY
SOMEONE
FINISHED MY TICKET
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:39 AM
:KEKpat:
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:39 AM
:KareninaSlap:
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:39 AM
it doesn't have talent tags
bcause it doesn't proc sac
it just carries the effect
for some reason
do u have anything to add before i close this?
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: bcause it doesn't proc sac
nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:41 AM
:terikan:
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good enough >> bestSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:41 AM
i didnt know guoba had constellations
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:41 AM
what does guoba c1 say
exact text
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: what does guoba c1 say
Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:41 AM
image.png
a lie
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:42 AM
ok c1 is on hit
sac is on dmg
inb4 on hit and on dmg checks are actually super mechanically different
time to see if theres a situation where a dmg trigger works but on hit doesnt
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:43 AM
:ohno:
is that related to this
or can i close this
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:43 AM
hmmm yes related
leave this open for 24h so i can think about it
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:44 AM
!rm 24h guoba c1
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(!) Keqing's Eternal AssistantSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:44 AM
Alright Rathalos, I'll remind you about guoba c1 in 1 day. ID: 56116667
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:44 AM
well ok the other thing to do is test via overload i guess
:Deadge:
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: well ok the other thing to do is test via overload i guess
nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:48 AM
now that i think about it
its actually not hard to test this
@Rathalos | I will finish it hold up time the debuff duration
no debuff after burgeon
Screenshot_2023-04-16-15-49-54-038_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
debuff appears after yanfei attack
Screenshot_2023-04-16-15-50-00-082_com.google.android.youtube.jpg
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: Finding:
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:50 AM
probably better to say "as long as they are hit by reactions caused by Guoba" :yaehmm:
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:50 AM
yeah
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:50 AM
unless your yanfei can somehow debuff enemies
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:50 AM
i'm gonna rephrase it
i just recorded OL doing the same thing
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:51 AM
also rath check if it works if the enemy didn't take damage
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:51 AM
how
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( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:51 AM
:omegacumjestic: NZ
hit the DMG hit cap, max 2 per 0.15s for Burgeon?
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:54 AM
affixed the OL clip
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: also rath check if it works if the enemy didn't take damage
Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:55 AM
i was investigating these but i don't actually know how the game interprets these
what does taking damage mean
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:56 AM
shields
mf
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:56 AM
what if they took damage but didn't get -hp
:ohno:
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: shields
Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:56 AM
where
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:57 AM
hydro abyss mage
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: no debuff after burgeon
Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:57 AM
but there was
image.png
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:58 AM
oh
i blame YouTube and pepega quality
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 03:58 AM
:KEKpat:
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: hydro abyss mage
Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:00 AM
it debuffs them yep
should i include it on the write up
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: it debuffs them yep
nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:01 AM
ok
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:01 AM
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:03 AM
ok now I'm trying to think of a situation where an enemy can take damage from a player's attack that doesn't trigger on hit effects
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:04 AM
:hmmge:
how
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:04 AM
idk I'm thinking
afaik it's impossible
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:09 AM
probably yeah :Sadge:
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:10 AM
ugh
tbats why i treated on dmg as a subset of on hit
but its not
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daibangdenSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:33 AM
same wording but this doesn't work
image.png
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:45 AM
i also tested Chongyun A4 which doesn't work either
:hmmge:
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:45 AM
:keqomegalul:
@Rathalos | I will finish it this is why i say not to close tickets for 24h
:crylaughtao:
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:52 AM
im testing keqing c2
it doesn't work on 3 tests so far
i hate rng
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nzpiefaceSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:53 AM
jeep going
50 50
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:53 AM
i'm doing it one more time
image.png
4th try still nothing
Éither i'm just super unlucky or this just doesn't work
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daibangdenSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:55 AM
my guess is this only work on some specific skills
and there is no pattern
noticed how most of those are old characters?
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:56 AM
but keqing
and chonyun
:Sadge:
5 tries now and nothing
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daibangdenSun, April 16, 2023 at 04:58 AM
old characters just have funny codes
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Rathalos | I will finish itSun, April 16, 2023 at 05:01 AM
XL C2 also doesn't work
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( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, April 16, 2023 at 05:26 AM
guoba is just built different
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🐟Sun, April 16, 2023 at 08:57 AM
Guoba coded as a character confirmed
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anju06Sun, April 16, 2023 at 05:33 PM
imma ask again anyone have c1+ Ganyu can test this?
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( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, April 16, 2023 at 05:42 PM
:yaehmm:
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🐟Sun, April 16, 2023 at 05:43 PM
For superconduct or?
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: i'm doing it one more time
emmausSun, April 16, 2023 at 11:11 PM
You do know it specifically says Normal and charged attacks
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Reply to Avatar emmaus: You do know it specifically says Normal and charged attacks
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 02:28 AM
yeah the same way Amber C2 says Aimed Shot or the same way Lisa E radiates the Conductive status right?
image.png
it's almost like
the entire point of the ticket is the investigate what works and what doesn't
:OMEGALUL:
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Reply to Avatar 🐟: For superconduct or?
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 02:29 AM
yes, if u have it please try it out :keqjoy:
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: the entire point of the ticket is the investigate what works and what doesn't
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 02:29 AM
Anyway i think i figured it out
Basically, these don't carry the attack tags or whatever, hence no sac proc / no deepwood proc / no proc for abilities that require the attack tag to match
The similarities I found with all these abilities is that they just require "on hit" stuff without caring about the attack tag
Lisa E just requires the Lightning Orb to hit
image.png
Guoba C1 just requires Guoba's attacks to hit
image.png
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: yeah the same way Amber C2 says Aimed Shot or the same way Lisa E radiates the Conductive status right?
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 02:34 AM
Amber c2 is a tricky one because it specifically mentions a fully charged Aimed Shot, which is where the other experiments came in
the wording is specifically different in her C2 compared to say Xiangling C2 or Keqing C2 that specify atk tags
but Chongyun A4 uses similar wording but brings up "Skill DMG"
image.png
which is probably why it's not triggering via SC
idk
i'll have to recheck chongyun
To sum,

- Attacks can "hit" enemies via reactions without direct contact
E.g. Lightning Orb hits hilichurl 2 via Superconduct, Guoba hits Ruin Guard via Burgeon

- Tags don't carry over transformative reactions
Even if they were "hit" by an Attack with a tag, the "hit" itself only reads the Attack (Lightning Orb, Guoba) that caused it while ignoring its tag (Elemental Skill)

- Attacks that "hit" enemies can only radiate properties that do not require Attack tags specifically
Keqing C2 specifically requires the CA/NA tag, so while her Attack hit the Ruin Guard via Burgeon, the C2 effect doesn't proc because the tag was missing
@nzpieface read and prove me wrong or something
idk
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nzpiefaceMon, April 17, 2023 at 02:46 AM
rewrite it i have no idea what the fuck it means even though i know what the evidence is
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 03:00 AM
but attack tag is what defines the attack without it how do the game know it's a hit from Guoba? or Amber's ca?
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Reply to Avatar anju06: but attack tag is what defines the attack without it how do the game know it's a hit from Guoba? or Amber's ca?
nzpiefaceMon, April 17, 2023 at 03:03 AM
everything has a name
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 03:08 AM
:kleeok:
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: rewrite it i have no idea what the fuck it means even though i know what the evidence is
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 03:16 AM
:ohno:
the tags don't matter
attacks can hit enemies using transformative reactions
so like effects that require the tag won't proc
but effects that only require the attack name do proc
maybe datamine can prove this
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: the tags don't matter
nzpiefaceMon, April 17, 2023 at 10:55 AM
much better :thumbup:
you actually say words in a human language now
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f99shiMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:13 AM
so as far as i see the difference in how guoba is coded is
it doesnt check for attacktag at all
it only checks for OnAttackLanded
and the reason why this doesnt affect any of xl's other attacks is because the OnAttackLanded check is being performed by guoba itself and not by xiangling, which is also why an attacktag check is not required
so the result is, because it doesnt check for attacktag, any attack owned by guoba, including reactions, will apply the c1 effect
lisa applying stacks from reactions works the same way, because the E projectile is considered a gadget, and the check is being executed by the gadget instead of the character
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🐟Mon, April 17, 2023 at 11:18 AM
I can test Ganyu on the weekend if that's desired still :yaehmm:
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rarepossumMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:18 AM
so you think it'll work on anything taht creates a gadget
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f99shiMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:18 AM
theoretically yes
actually not really
they can still code the check into the character instead of the gadget
like rosaria c6
it just depends on what they ate for breakfast on that specific day ig
ohno2
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:51 AM
:ohno:
thanks i hate it
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Reply to Avatar f99shi: lisa applying stacks from reactions works the same way, because the E projectile is considered a gadget, and the check is being executed by the gadget instead of the character
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:53 AM
what about Amber C2 being triggered by Burgeon?
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rarepossumMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:56 AM
Oh I have a funky one
Yae's C6 Def ignore on reactions
absolutely makes no differnece but still
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 11:57 AM
how about Amber c2 in coop?
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:59 AM
i think there's a ticket on that
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 11:59 AM
i mean the interaction with this
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: what about Amber C2 being triggered by Burgeon?
f99shiMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:59 AM
makes sense, arrows are gadgets
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 11:59 AM
:ohno:
why doesn't chongyun a4 work then?
is the spirit blade not a gadget :Sadge:
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f99shiMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:00 PM
chongyun a4 has an attacktag check
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:00 PM
oh :Sadge:
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 12:01 PM
have you checked if Lisa works with hyperbloom?
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:02 PM
it doesn't afaik
wait
i only remember aggravate/quicken not working
idk if hyperbloom was tested
are there any other Archer stuff we could test apart from Ganyu/
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rarepossumMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:04 PM
faruzan wind thingy
but tahts ahrd
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 12:05 PM
what is Faruzan thing?
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Reply to Avatar anju06: have you checked if Lisa works with hyperbloom?
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:06 PM
yeah no it doesn't work, idk why
must be with how sprawling shots are coded?
as in it's no longer from the lightning orb gadget
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anju06Mon, April 17, 2023 at 12:32 PM
yet burgeon works, weird
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Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 12:36 PM
coded differently
since hyperbloom becomes a missile
:hmmge:
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nzpiefaceMon, April 17, 2023 at 03:54 PM
oh wait
:pepela:
wait see if this works for burning
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: wait see if this works for burning
Rathalos | I will finish itMon, April 17, 2023 at 04:32 PM
it should but it's ass to test since burning aoe is super small
im not planning on doing it unless someone volunteers
:Deadge:
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: it should but it's ass to test since burning aoe is super small
nzpiefaceMon, April 17, 2023 at 06:40 PM
you can just time the debuff
see if it lasts for more than 6s
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: since hyperbloom becomes a missile
f99shiMon, April 17, 2023 at 07:27 PM
yea if theres a projectile then chances are the attack is owned by the projectile gadget
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: see if it lasts for more than 6s
Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 03:13 AM
i don't think burning lasts long enough for me to tell the difference
!rm 12h close ticket
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(!) Keqing's Eternal AssistantTue, April 18, 2023 at 04:32 AM
Alright Rathalos, I'll remind you about close ticket in 12 hours. ID: 56189410
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Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 04:32 AM
idk if there's anything else i can do for this
:hmmge:
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: i don't think burning lasts long enough for me to tell the difference
nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:21 AM
burning lasts multiple seconds mf
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Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:21 AM
:kekqing:
i was using nahida n1
idk if it's still guoba's ownership
yeah no i'm not testing burning
:Deadge:
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: idk if it's still guoba's ownership
nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:35 AM
test it
:crylaughtao:
:terikan:
test it mf
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: test it
Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:37 AM
i did
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: i did
nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:38 AM
send vi
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Reply to Avatar nzpieface: send vi
Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:40 AM
debuff only lasted ~ 4s after burning expired
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nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:41 AM
:pepela:
burning doesnt work
unless guoba has a cooldown on this
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Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:41 AM
maybe it does but only in activation
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Reply to Avatar Rathalos | I will finish it: maybe it does but only in activation
nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:42 AM
:E_OMEGARAZOR: wdym
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Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:42 AM
when burning got triggered
but not the consequent burning ticks
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nzpiefaceTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:42 AM
maybe but not like we can test that
also triggering burning odesnt even do damage man
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Rathalos | I will finish itTue, April 18, 2023 at 09:44 AM
:ohno:
so it doesn't radiate the effect since it doesnt deal damage
i assume it would be the same for bloom / quicken
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f99shiTue, April 18, 2023 at 02:36 PM
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🐟Tue, April 18, 2023 at 02:43 PM
"#unknown"
:yaehmm:
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f99shiTue, April 18, 2023 at 02:59 PM
oh its in gcsim
basically burning is not owned by your character
which is a side effect of them making burning ownership change when you reapply dendro or pyro
its copying your stats to the ghost owner and not actually switching owners
which is why burning crits w nahida dont proc fav
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Rathalos | I will finish itWed, April 19, 2023 at 12:31 AM
@nzpieface im closing this ticket now, anything else to add?
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nzpiefaceWed, April 19, 2023 at 12:37 AM
your mum
add your mum
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Rathalos | I will finish itWed, April 19, 2023 at 12:41 AM
:madge:
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TiBotWed, April 19, 2023 at 12:42 AM
Ticket closed by @Rathalos | I will finish it. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.
Ticket verified by @( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | Casdela
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is_this_maddieWed, April 19, 2023 at 01:16 AM
:KEQHMM:
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TiBotWed, April 19, 2023 at 01:20 AM
Ticket verified by @is_this_maddie
Creating transcript...