hunters-passive-and-tighnari-a4-benefit-from-percentage-based-em-buffs

KQM | Genshin Impact

100 messages

TiBotThu, October 6, 2022 at 04:21 PM

@Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 04:43 PM

now the real question is, why tf is this the case

: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1024514707526258850/1024518472518074419

@Maxi could you explain why that finding of yours was expected, and why it's like that with sss when hunter's (which has a similar passive) works with sucrose a4

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:04 PM

This follows the % of an attribute buffs not affecting % of an attribute buffs

Hunter's path is just added EM multiplier, not a buff

Also, tighnari is a bad choice to use for testing hunter's path since he also just scales based on EM so its better to test them separately imo

Reply to

Maxi: Hunter's path is just added EM multiplier, not a buff

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:05 PM

what about tigh A4? surely that ones a buff

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:05 PM

Yeah if it isn't on the stat page (and it isn't DR

) it doesn't count

Reply to

Maxi: Also, tighnari is a bad choice to use for testing hunter's path since he also just scales based on EM so its better to test them separately imo

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:05 PM

not a bad choice if you account for it (i did)

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:06 PM

Elemental skill damage for example isn't on the stat page (and thus isn't a trait which can be passed on I guess) so it is buffed

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:06 PM

i see. so that rule only works if it shows up on the stats screen

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:06 PM

And DR

Xingqiu DR doesn't work with Kaz a4

Oh and people say eosf doesn't work with electro traveler

Haven't tested that one myself

So the answer may just be spaghetti

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:08 PM

i'm guessing there are layers of hidden stats

DR may be more "normal" than tighnari CA and Q dmg bonus

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:09 PM

Eosf is just burst damage bonus though so there's no reason skill damage and burst damage would work differently

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:09 PM

or just spaghetti

i wonder why tigh a4 and hunters it wasnt working in 3.0

Reply to

Maxi: Eosf is just burst damage bonus though so there's no reason skill damage and burst damage would work differently

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:10 PM

hm true

. this is so inconsistent

Reply to an unknown message

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:11 PM

then how should i word why this is expected here?

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:13 PM

Sucrose a4 not working with Kaz a4 made me expect it would not work with any direct em -> stat conversions

Any other % based EM shares in the future (

) will likely function the same way

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:18 PM

"When an effect confers one attribute as a certain percentage of another attribute, this effect will not then factor into calculations of other similar percentage-based effects."

so in this case sucrose A4 is an effect that confers one attribute (em) as a certain percentage of another attribute (em)

while hunter's passive is NOT an effect that confers one attribute (CA flat dmg bonus) as a certain percentage of another attribute (em)

which means CA flat dmg bonus is not an attribute

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:19 PM

Flat damage isn't an attribute

And in any case calling Hunter's path flat damage is silly

It's just additional EM multiplier on your damage

If that's flat damage, everything is flat damage

Shenhe and yunjin (and quicken reactions) are flat damage

Speaking of that reminds me I should find a way to test if shenhe quills are affected by makhaira aquamarine

Reply to

Maxi: And in any case calling Hunter's path flat damage is silly

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:21 PM

it doesnt matter if it's silly or not; that's how everyone refers to flat dmg. also, the reason it's called flat isnt because it's unchanging ("flat"), but rather because it shows how the calculation is done (additive dmg bonus, not multiplicative)

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:25 PM

https://youtu.be/XVA9wIzRXCI

Hunter's Path + SucroseA4

In any case I had tested before

It's in #equipment-basic-mechanics

Reply to

Maxi: https://youtu.be/XVA9wIzRXCI

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:26 PM

which game version?

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:27 PM

3 days ago

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:28 PM

just confirming the record date

. anyway that's good

also hm i'm wondering why electro mc wont work with eosf

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:28 PM

I'm testing it now

I had never checked it myself

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:28 PM

does it mean elem burst dmg is not an attribute

Reply to

Maxi: I'm testing it now

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:29 PM

if it does turn out to not work, i'm still expecting the flat 20% increase to work, but not the additional ones from emc's A4

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:29 PM

neither work for EL or Raiden A4

those I've checked

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:30 PM

hmge

is there any possibility it works when emc's a4 isnt unlocked yet

maybe the a4 kinda changes the nature of his e buffs

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:31 PM

It doesn't work for eosf either lol

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:38 PM

then Elemental Burst DMG is an attribute

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:39 PM

Or Electro Traveler was specifically coded as an exception

perhaps the only way to implement this is as a specific exception

because tigh a4 is also burst dmg%

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:40 PM

can be. even amc has a different swirl priority

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:40 PM

and afaik that works

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:40 PM

i havent tested tigh a4's burst dmg part, maybe i should

MaxiThu, October 6, 2022 at 05:57 PM

Let me know if you do - checking the data and looks like eosf is a deliberate exclusion

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 06:14 PM

@Maxi:

Finding: Hunter's passive and Tighnari A4 benefit from percentage-based EM buffs.

Evidence: In the first video (link: https://youtu.be/8B1b_RBUpt0) and the second video (link: https://youtu.be/B5Tk_QpyO_Y), Tighnari hits twice with his Level 1 Aimed Shot and twice with his Elemental Burst, respectively, once before and once after Sucrose has triggered her A4. The attached calculations show that the passive of Hunter's Path and Tighnari A4 (both the CA DMG% and Burst DMG% part) benefit from Sucrose A4.

Significance: Confirmation that the bugfix introduced with the 3.1 update "Fixes an issue whereby effects gained based on a character's attribute were incorrectly increased" (link: https://genshin.hoyoverse.com/en/news/detail/2428) is actually true. Better knowledge of how percentage-based effects work.

Both Hunter's passive and Tighnari A4 (CA DMG%) benefit from Sucros...

Tighnari A4 (Burst DMG%) benefits from Sucrose A4

we need someone to test whether or not Dori C4 works with another char carrying eosf

we also need to check if effects such as Mona A4 and Sara A4 work with dori c4/emc e+a4

if dori's turns out to not work either, then it'd be compatible with the situation with emc. otherwise,

Reply to

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping: then Elemental Burst DMG is an attribute

f99shiThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:51 PM

its not an attribute. how it works is it looks for attacks with the "Elemental_Burst" attack tag, and modifies the damage

Reply to

f99shi: its not an attribute. how it works is it looks for attacks with the "Elemental_Burst" attack tag, and modifies the damage

f99shiThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:52 PM

only elemental/physical dmg bonus are attributes. all other types of dmg bonus work like this

Reply to

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping: "When an effect confers one attribute as a certain percentage of another attribute, this effect will not then factor into calculations of other similar percentage-based effects."

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:53 PM

if it's not an attribute, then emc a4 and eosf non-interaction goes against hyverse's explanation

f99shiThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:54 PM

hoyo's not known for good wording

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:54 PM

since what you're saying is true, it simply means what hyverse said is wrong

Reply to

f99shi: hoyo's not known for good wording

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:55 PM

but how come it works with tigh A4 then

f99shiThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:55 PM

🍝

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:55 PM

okay. then i guess we really do have to test every interaction

because nothing is consistent

f99shiThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:56 PM

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, October 6, 2022 at 08:56 PM

Reply to

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping: if it's not an attribute, then emc a4 and eosf non-interaction goes against hyverse's explanation

emmausFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:30 PM

how so? is eosf buff affected by emc ER share?

Reply to

emmaus: how so? is eosf buff affected by emc ER share?

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:34 PM

the expected behaviour is for the flat er share from emc e to work with eosf, but for the percentage-based part from emc a4 to not work with eosf.

currently, none of them work

here's dori c4 flat er buff working with eosf as expected https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/763610791839924224/1027763944623972362

emmausFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:36 PM

maybe they took the word "percentage" too literal. ERC is a %-age too, I guess

Reply to

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping: here's dori c4 flat er buff working with eosf as expected https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/763610791839924224/1027763944623972362

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:37 PM

but then this wouldnt be the case

it's just hyverse inconsistency

emmausFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:38 PM

does Collei's c1 also affect emblem

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:40 PM

that should work

since it's flat

all non-percentage-based effects should work. emc just seems like an exception

emmausFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:41 PM

collei's burst doesn't snapshot, does it? if it does, it's impossible to test

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingFri, October 7, 2022 at 06:42 PM

yeah if it does snapshot, one wouldnt be able to test (and even then it just would mean it doesnt matter lol)

Unfortunately, these days, I don't have the time to work on investigating percentage-based effects further. So the pinned finding will do for now.

TiBotSat, October 8, 2022 at 02:21 AM

Ticket closed by @Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

Reply to

Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping: yeah if it does snapshot, one wouldnt be able to test (and even then it just would mean it doesnt matter lol)

Mimi | CitlaliSun, October 9, 2022 at 10:11 AM

doesnt 4 eosf bypass snapshotting? iirc xiangling c4 + engulfing has an interaction where the last pyronado swing doesnt get buffed by the 30 ER from engulfing

just tested collei with 4 eosf, it does buff the burst when u swap off, and also goes away when you swap in

TiBotThu, October 13, 2022 at 10:17 PM

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