KQM | Genshin Impact
misc-tree-mark-updates
72 messages
TiBotThu, December 29, 2022 at 09:25 AM
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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
AnmaruThu, December 29, 2022 at 09:50 AM
Finding:
1. Players can hit trees with converted Normal Attacks (e.g: Tartaglia's Melee Stance, Kamisato Ayato's Takimeguri Kanka (TK) Stance, etc.) by first dealing a Physical DMG hit, then followed by converted NAs. [1]
2. Tree hits will be registered for a limited duration. The timer for this duration begins when Physical DMG is dealt to the tree; subsequent hits during this duration will not reset the timer [2.1]. If trees are receive their first hit at different times, their timers will begin independent of each other. [2.2]
3. The character dealing converted NAs can still register hits against a tree, even if a different unit deals the first Physical hit. [3]
Evidence:
[1]: Examples of converted NAs hitting trees and collecting wood
- <link>: Tartaglia shooting an arrow dealing Physical DMG, followed by NAs in Melee Stance
- <link>: Ayato dealing Physical DMG with N1, followed by NAs in TK Stance
[2.1]: <link> - Ayato delaying Physical hit into converted NAs, resulting in a varying number of hits
[2.2]:
[3]
- <link>: Zhongli dealing Physical DMG, allowing Ayato to register hits in his TK Stance
Significance: Better understanding of interactions with trees. Allows the collection of wood typically not possible when only attacking with converting NAs.
1. Players can hit trees with converted Normal Attacks (e.g: Tartaglia's Melee Stance, Kamisato Ayato's Takimeguri Kanka (TK) Stance, etc.) by first dealing a Physical DMG hit, then followed by converted NAs. [1]
2. Tree hits will be registered for a limited duration. The timer for this duration begins when Physical DMG is dealt to the tree; subsequent hits during this duration will not reset the timer [2.1]. If trees are receive their first hit at different times, their timers will begin independent of each other. [2.2]
3. The character dealing converted NAs can still register hits against a tree, even if a different unit deals the first Physical hit. [3]
Evidence:
[1]: Examples of converted NAs hitting trees and collecting wood
- <link>: Tartaglia shooting an arrow dealing Physical DMG, followed by NAs in Melee Stance
- <link>: Ayato dealing Physical DMG with N1, followed by NAs in TK Stance
[2.1]: <link> - Ayato delaying Physical hit into converted NAs, resulting in a varying number of hits
[2.2]:
[3]
- <link>: Zhongli dealing Physical DMG, allowing Ayato to register hits in his TK Stance
Significance: Better understanding of interactions with trees. Allows the collection of wood typically not possible when only attacking with converting NAs.
not sure if these tree mechanics are already covered in tcl 
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, December 29, 2022 at 09:56 AM
there's this but idk if its scope is equal https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/general-mechanics/resources-and-efficiency#elemental-infusion-hampers-wood-cutting
1
Resources and Efficiency | KQM TCL
For entries related to resources or resource efficiency
1AnmaruThu, December 29, 2022 at 09:58 AM
hm, sounds basically the same as what ive written up there, but with different wording
i guess the only extension i can add to the existing entry in the library is for this:
tyty tho, i need to find my way around TCL better 
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, December 29, 2022 at 10:02 AM
since search is missing just use google 
AnmaruThu, December 29, 2022 at 10:02 AM
TRUE
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingThu, December 29, 2022 at 10:03 AM
but it also helped that i was around when the ticket was submitted so 
AnmaruThu, December 29, 2022 at 10:03 AM
mustve been fun watching people open tickets about punching trees
mhy sure knows how to make a game mechanic complex
Extension to https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/general-mechanics/resources-and-efficiency#temporary-skill-targets-enabling-unholy-harvesting-methods
Finding: Tree hits with converted Normal Attacks will be registered for a limited duration, i.e. marking a tree. The timer for this duration begins when any unit deals Physical DMG to the tree; subsequent hits during this duration will not reset the timer [1]. This mark will last for 5 seconds. [2]
Evidence:
[1] https://youtu.be/QgXy-3uqDCA - Ayato delaying Physical hit into converted NAs, resulting in a varying number of hits.
- 0:01 Medium: 5 hits
- 0:16 Long: 3 hits
- 0:31 Short: 11 hits
[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11WzlwgGTWGsQt0cmFSCRMZbr9zj9OGyrUvXuq9dxtvE/edit#gid=0 - Tree mark duration (in frames), roughly 300 frames at 60fps.
Significance: Gotta chop fast
"Finding: ... • Marks last a very short time ... "
Finding: Tree hits with converted Normal Attacks will be registered for a limited duration, i.e. marking a tree. The timer for this duration begins when any unit deals Physical DMG to the tree; subsequent hits during this duration will not reset the timer [1]. This mark will last for 5 seconds. [2]
Evidence:
[1] https://youtu.be/QgXy-3uqDCA - Ayato delaying Physical hit into converted NAs, resulting in a varying number of hits.
- 0:01 Medium: 5 hits
- 0:16 Long: 3 hits
- 0:31 Short: 11 hits
[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11WzlwgGTWGsQt0cmFSCRMZbr9zj9OGyrUvXuq9dxtvE/edit#gid=0 - Tree mark duration (in frames), roughly 300 frames at 60fps.
Significance: Gotta chop fast
Resources and Efficiency | KQM TCL
For entries related to resources or resource efficiency
Tree Mark Frames
60fps Frames
Video,Timestamp,Ayato Vanish,Last Hitlag,Last Hit Mark,Next Vanish,Notes
1,0:00,278,282,284,302,Use Ayato Vanish as marker for when Shinsuiken NA animation begins
1,0:26,291,295,297,315
1,0:37,279,283,285,303,Alongside Video 1, 0:00 - seems to suggest mark duration lasts only 300 fr...
Video,Timestamp,Ayato Vanish,Last Hitlag,Last Hit Mark,Next Vanish,Notes
1,0:00,278,282,284,302,Use Ayato Vanish as marker for when Shinsuiken NA animation begins
1,0:26,291,295,297,315
1,0:37,279,283,285,303,Alongside Video 1, 0:00 - seems to suggest mark duration lasts only 300 fr...
!rm 12h count frames for tree mark
(!) Keqing's Eternal AssistantThu, December 29, 2022 at 10:22 AM
Alright an odd medium, I'll remind you about count frames for tree mark in 12 hours. ID: 52138456
AnmaruTue, January 3, 2023 at 06:46 AM
not me looking for ayato's sword cues as a way to land tree mark frames perfectly
Finding: Marking trees and the duration of the mark are both client-side.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/bNdGROZnSvI
Significance: Demonstrates that the act of marking trees and mark duration are not dependent on ping.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/bNdGROZnSvI
Significance: Demonstrates that the act of marking trees and mark duration are not dependent on ping.
TiBotWed, January 4, 2023 at 04:47 AM
This ticket has been renamed to
misc tree mark updates by @AnmaruAnmaruSun, January 8, 2023 at 12:11 AM
at 60fps, the mark seems to last for 300 frames
not sure about 30fps yet but we'll get there
should also be roughly 5s at 30fps
sometimes it doesnt register but its prob bc of the weird 
stuff that happens to the game at lower frame rates
stuff that happens to the game at lower frame ratesi basically just tried many different delay timings to see how close i could get each of ayato's E state attacks to the mark duration, and it gradually converged to around 300, with anything beyond 300 seemingly not registering
given the limited practical use of this knowledge, i dont think theres too much benefit in trying to land exactly 299, 300 and 301 for the hitlag or hitmark frames
and 5 seconds seems to be a fair deduction from the 60 and 30fps frame data ± a few frames bc of freezes, game slowdown (or whatever reason is behind it)
ill clean up the sheets to be more readable, but let me know if i should add or change anything else 
TiBotSun, January 8, 2023 at 02:43 AM
Ticket closed by @Anmaru. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or
/open.
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, January 8, 2023 at 09:09 AM
have you consider dumbing down your sheet notes a little, or at least make it easier to understand, like include why these data matters and in what way
TiBotSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:43 AM
Ticket re-opened by @Anmaru
AnmaruSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:44 AM
good point, its valuable to have someone else's perspective on my work and for things that might appear self evident to only me
thats something ill have to learn in order to write things accessible to everyone 
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:48 AM
that's a good thing keep in mind
I could attempt to decipher your notes and understand it but it doesn't mean the next time I read it I don't have to decipher it all over again
I could attempt to decipher your notes and understand it but it doesn't mean the next time I read it I don't have to decipher it all over again
AnmaruSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:49 AM
yeah nah, its my responsibility to make it easy for others to verify and just understand tbh, otherwise it doesnt help anyone
id prefer if you didnt have to decipher
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:50 AM
you could start by stating that you use ayato's hit mark to determine the "mark" timing, then explain what "missing hitlag" means
💯1
is the ayato vanish data necessary 
AnmaruSun, January 8, 2023 at 11:53 AM
its kind of like to show when the next hitmark would have been if the mark didnt expire
that way u can say that: there was a hitmark at 295, but no hitmark at 314 where we expected there to be one
so from that, we can conclude that the mark must have expired between 295 and 314
AnmaruSun, January 8, 2023 at 12:16 PM
actually no yeah i see ur point
ill have to double check to see if the hitlag frames for each Shunsuiken slash is the same
cuz if not, then using the ayato vanish data to estimate the next hitframe isnt correct
@( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | Casdela thank you for your patience while i cleaned up the sheets
ive added a sheet "KEY - Field descriptions" which gives a description of each field and why they are needed
ive also made the comments for each record more clear
hopefully itll be less painful to go through
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, January 14, 2023 at 07:45 AM
it's definitely clearer than before
would you mind rewording this too, I don't think this is correct
would you mind rewording this too, I don't think this is correct
Tree hits with converted Normal Attacks will be registered for a limited duration, i.e. marking a tree.
also, I recognize that artist's art style in your pfp, is that Zhongli 
AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:33 AM
i might move that to a separate finding altogether since the current one it belongs in addresses the mark duration rather than the hits themselves
AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:33 AM
also good spotting hsfdg their art is so good
i have a group of friends and we each picked one archon
matching pfps 😌
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:34 AM
I follow the artist on twitter 
AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:34 AM
i should too
1
1( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:36 AM
I think the og ticket that you link already discuss which attack can mark
AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:36 AM
i was thinking of posting the art of kaeya and alhaitham in here but i thought twice
hmm
okok
let me rewrite the first sentence rq
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:37 AM
I know which one you're talking about 1
1AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:43 AM
Extension to https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/general-mechanics/resources-and-efficiency#temporary-skill-targets-enabling-unholy-harvesting-methods
Finding: Tree marks last for 5 seconds and cannot be extended with subsequent hits during this duration.
Evidence: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11WzlwgGTWGsQt0cmFSCRMZbr9zj9OGyrUvXuq9dxtvE/edit#gid=0 - Tree mark duration (in frames), roughly 300 frames at 60fps.
Significance: Gotta chop fast
"Finding: ... • Marks last a very short time ... "
Finding: Tree marks last for 5 seconds and cannot be extended with subsequent hits during this duration.
Evidence: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11WzlwgGTWGsQt0cmFSCRMZbr9zj9OGyrUvXuq9dxtvE/edit#gid=0 - Tree mark duration (in frames), roughly 300 frames at 60fps.
Significance: Gotta chop fast
Tree Mark Frames
KEY - Field Descriptions
Field,Description,Why we measure this
Ayato Vanish,The frame Ayato disappears to perform the Shunsuiken Slash that was last registered as a hit,This is an easily recognisable visual marker that is consistent across all Slashes. As such, we will use this frame to denote w...
Field,Description,Why we measure this
Ayato Vanish,The frame Ayato disappears to perform the Shunsuiken Slash that was last registered as a hit,This is an easily recognisable visual marker that is consistent across all Slashes. As such, we will use this frame to denote w...
Resources and Efficiency | KQM TCL
For entries related to resources or resource efficiency
removed the dmg type from it since ill assume converted normal attacks are already included in the linked finding:
"All Physical damage sources & an odd assortment of character Skills (Jean's E, Kaeya's Q) can shake/mark"
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, January 14, 2023 at 08:59 AM
looks good 
AnmaruSat, January 14, 2023 at 01:20 PM
okok! ill update it
everything should be good for review, thank you for the help
TiBotSun, January 15, 2023 at 06:59 AM
Ticket closed by @Anmaru. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or
/open.Ticket verified by @( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | Casdela
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 24, 2023 at 01:42 PM
note to scholars: this ticket has 2 findings 
TiBotTue, January 24, 2023 at 02:20 PM
Ticket verified by @🐟
Creating transcript...