ping-vs-swap-delay-interaction

KQM | Genshin Impact

121 messages

TiBotSat, July 27, 2024 at 06:49 AM

@sharaths21312 - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 06:49 AM

TCL currently says ping+50ms = swap delay, but has no evidence I could find

there's also word of mouth (pretty much) for 2x ping = swap delay

so I just wanted to at least be sure that we can't be sure

I started a sheet to keep track of this, will add a bit more details soon https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17WKudZk8pcy0iqbsniKC1Wybr-HWj514Y65xKzpzau8/edit?usp=sharing

ping swap testing

Data

Ping range,Video link,Recorded by,Exact ping,Swap delay (frames),Swap delay (ms)
<30
30-50
50-75
75-100
100-125
125-150
150-200
200-250
250-300
300+
-

xochiyohSat, July 27, 2024 at 06:58 AM

there's also this https://docs.gcsim.app/guides/understanding_config_files#simulator-options

Understanding Config Files | gcsim Docs

For more information, visit the config file page under references.

it's logical because ping is the amount of time it takes to send or receive a signal between client side and server side

assuming a swap requires a round trip, it would take ping in ms * 2 ms to complete

* 60 to convert to 60 frames per millisecond

and / 1000 to convert to 60 frames per second

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 07:01 AM

yes but some testing is giving different results

but yeah this is where the 2x number is from

xochiyohSat, July 27, 2024 at 07:01 AM

there's also stuff like packet loss which makes it a little impossible to be perfect on this

but interesting

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 07:03 AM

I've just been testing and with stable 60 fps it takes 19-20 frames at 220 ping and 23-24 at 320

This will have to be a theoryhunt

I can't get the low ping (below 120) and the more people that can test the better

xochiyohSat, July 27, 2024 at 07:08 AM

i can test at various pings because i can change my geforce now server

not sure if i can record at 60 fps though

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 07:09 AM

can you measure the input lag in geforce now though

xochiyohSat, July 27, 2024 at 07:10 AM

yeah it has a ping indicator too

maybe there's a better way of measuring through just genshin tho

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 07:10 AM

I mean you could do something that takes a known amount of frames (like just press W) and see how long it takes

I can't really think of anything else

obvi attacks and stuff have known frames

Requirements:
- stable ping (can be low or high, doesn't matter)
- stable 60 fps recording and gameplay (for now)
Steps:
- Set up [OBS Studio](https://obsproject.com/) with [input overlay](https://github.com/univrsal/input-overlay), or some other means of showing inputs
- swap between characters
- (not technically required but still recommended) show the frame count in the video
- example ffmpeg command:

ffmpeg -i <path_to_input> -vf "drawtext=fontfile='/Windows/Fonts/Arial.ttf': text='%{frame_num}': start_number=1: x=(w-tw)/2: y=h-(2*lh): fontcolor=black: fontsize=20: box=1: boxcolor=white: boxborderw=5" ./output.mp4

- count the frames for the swap
- subtract the frame number where the input first appears from the frame number in which the character's model changes

@touc | c4 ayaka salesman gave some recordings which I've added to the sheet

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 10:49 AM

Hmm, I can help provide a video but won't be able to do the math part. Is that alright with you? @sharaths21312

Reply to

sharaths21312: there's also word of mouth (pretty much) for 2x ping = swap delay

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 10:59 AM

naur

5000 ping takes 5s give or take

Reply to

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬: Hmm, I can help provide a video but won't be able to do the math part. Is that alright with you? @sharaths21312

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 10:59 AM

yeah there's no issue

as long as the video meets the requirements

I'm considering 30 fps too depending on how fast I fill up this data

that being said how is your ping

mostly looking for very low ping users

Reply to

sharaths21312: that being said how is your ping

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 11:01 AM

92 ms

around there

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM

it's fine ig

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM

kk brb

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 11:02 AM

lower than the current recordings by a decent margin

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 11:47 AM

im recording through obs, and using the github overlay link. does anyone know by any chance why the overlay isn't detecting my inputs in-game on genshin?

it detects my keys outside of genshin, but entering the genshin window, it completely stops working

example^

i tried whitelisting genshin window in the overlay settings, but that didn't do anything

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 11:56 AM

run obs with admin privileges

👍1

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 12:24 PM

https://youtu.be/6hj0sI9pO_s?si=NHQxK-rclo8TYvla

Ping vs Swap Delay Video Sample

Sample video for KQM in research of Ping Interaction and Swap Delay.

Uploaded July 27, 2024

Let me know if you need me to provide another recording sample if there are any specific requests/changes.

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:06 PM

i got recording of 30-6000ms if you need

in glorious 4k

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 01:11 PM

holy 6k ms

30 would be nice at least

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:12 PM

30-50-100-200-300-400-500-600-800-1000-1500-2000-3000-4000-5000-6000 tested

game refuse to run past 2000 outside combat and 6000 in combat

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 01:12 PM

the game is more tolerant in combat?

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:13 PM

but if you enter a menu or exit combat while above 2000 ping it disconnects

https://youtu.be/Tv7F_KMvTBs

30-6000ms Genshin ping-swap delay interaction (timestamps in descri...

11:20 - 30ms
11:00 - 50ms
00:00 - 100ms
00:25 - 200ms
00:40 - 300ms
01:00 - 400ms
01:18 - 500ms
01:40 - 600ms
02:05 - 800ms
02:28 - 1000ms
02:59 - 1500ms
03:25 - 2000ms
04:00 - disconnected
05:32 - 3000ms
06:18 - 4000ms
07:11 - 5000ms
08:07 - disconnected
08:47 - 6000ms
09:35 - disconnected

Reply to

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬: https://youtu.be/6hj0sI9pO_s?si=NHQxK-rclo8TYvla

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 01:34 PM

the variance here is quite high

is it possible you were having frame drops or smth?

that's quite a blob

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:43 PM

wait it's not 4k

footage ruined

Reply to

xochiyoh: assuming a swap requires a round trip, it would take ping in ms * 2 ms to complete

TibotSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:49 PM

ping is already a round trip measurement (time between client -> server -> client)

Reply to

Young lady めぐタオ: wait it's not 4k

sharaths21312Sat, July 27, 2024 at 01:53 PM

I'm only going to examine it in 720p anyways

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 01:56 PM

i forgor rtss

to catch stutters

Reply to

Tibot: ping is already a round trip measurement (time between client -> server -> client)

xochiyohSat, July 27, 2024 at 08:19 PM

oh really

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 08:26 PM

Reply to

sharaths21312: is it possible you were having frame drops or smth?

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sat, July 27, 2024 at 08:27 PM

Perhaps.

I can grab another footage and see. I will lower my graphics on genshin too, in case that effects the variable.

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 08:27 PM

RTSS should be best to see

the hardware log wouldn’t help too much

it’s packaged with MSI Afterburner

Reply to

sharaths21312: that's quite a blob

Young lady めぐタオSat, July 27, 2024 at 09:17 PM

wats that line of best fit thing in sheet

i never use sheet but have to cuz sharing an excel file is worse

Reply to

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬: Perhaps.

Magic Star | Luuk's Drugs🌈🍬Sun, July 28, 2024 at 02:19 AM

https://youtu.be/A0VCRJkt80o
There is a FPS counter at the top middle of the screen.

Graphics were changed from High to Low at 1:18

Ping vs Swap Delay Video Sample #2

Sample video for KQM in research of Ping Interaction and Swap Delay.

Graphics were changed from High to Low at 1:18
There is a FPS counter at the top middle of the screen.

Uploaded July 27, 2024

Reply to

sharaths21312:

the variance here is quite high

aftermathrarSun, July 28, 2024 at 10:39 AM

the inputs have a ton of delay variance, swap timings should probably be buffered to account for that. vsync for me introduces like 3-6 frames of delay.

in the second vid you can see that the initial couple jumps have ~5f input delay, same with the skill cast

TiBotSun, August 4, 2024 at 10:45 AM

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

Young lady めぐタオMon, August 12, 2024 at 01:56 AM

TiBotMon, August 19, 2024 at 02:00 AM

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is_this_maddieSun, September 1, 2024 at 08:00 PM

@sharaths21312 how is this going

TiBotSun, September 8, 2024 at 08:15 PM

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is_this_maddieThu, September 12, 2024 at 12:10 AM

TiBotThu, September 19, 2024 at 12:15 AM

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

🐟Thu, September 26, 2024 at 12:40 AM

We are so alive surely

sharaths21312Thu, September 26, 2024 at 09:15 AM

[W_HuLurking](https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/813043888675356741.gif?size=48&quality=lossless&name=W_HuLurking)

TiBotThu, October 3, 2024 at 09:30 AM

This channel hasn't been active in the past week!

is_this_maddieThu, October 24, 2024 at 07:35 PM

fuck it

im closing

!rm 3d close this thing

(!) Keqing's Eternal AssistantThu, October 24, 2024 at 07:35 PM

New Reminder | ID:73944971

Alright is_this_maddie, I'll remind you in 3 days about:

close this thing

is_this_maddieThu, October 24, 2024 at 07:35 PM

someone else can deal with the consequences

sharaths21312Sat, October 26, 2024 at 05:56 AM

progress has started

I'm relatively free this weekend

Finding: The amount of swap delay is approximately 90ms + ping
Evidence https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17WKudZk8pcy0iqbsniKC1Wybr-HWj514Y65xKzpzau8/edit?usp=sharing
There is reasonably close agreement with only 2 outliers in around 75 data points, the outliers were removed when calculating the best fit line
The frame counting was done as (frame of HP bar change) - (frame of input appearance) as that produced a distinct difference
Significance: Can be used in sims to approximate the practical amount of swap delay at a personal ping amount
This is a correction to both the [TCL](https://library.keqingmains.com/combat-mechanics/frames#swap) and [gcsim](https://docs.gcsim.app/guides/understanding_config_files/#simulator-options) docs, the former stating a delay of ping + 50, and the latter implying 2 × ping.

ping swap testing

TiBotSat, October 26, 2024 at 08:52 AM

Ticket closed by @sharaths21312. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

xochiyohSat, October 26, 2024 at 03:18 PM

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xKJ_Si3VaTjUQswpHYElzzOqrM6tlM5vDjjEnGK8lOc/edit?usp=sharing

Copy of ping swap testing

added some

at 1 ping

but with geforce now

i also did some buffered swaps which were much faster

and gfn shouldn't affect them since i think it just adds some input delay

Young lady めぐタオSat, October 26, 2024 at 09:28 PM

where are my 6s ping data points

Reply to

sharaths21312: Finding: The amount of swap delay is approximately 90ms + ping

caramel 🧁Mon, December 9, 2024 at 06:46 AM

do we know what's the logic behind this

Reply to

sharaths21312: Finding: The amount of swap delay is approximately 90ms + ping

VespertineWed, December 11, 2024 at 05:26 AM

IIRC the game itself has like 2f~3f of input delay. You can check by recording like pressing E vs when the E starts executing. So I think that it should be accounted for as a baseline.

A baseline input delay of 3f is 50ms. So we have:

Normal action: 50
Swap action: 90 + ping

Most people consider normal actions as 0ms delay for gcsim. So the swap_delay should be set as 40ms + ping

TiBotFri, December 27, 2024 at 11:35 PM

Ticket verified by @caramel 🧁

Ticket verified by @nzpieface

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