raiden-c2-applies-to-physical-damage

KQM | Genshin Impact

99 messages

TiBotMon, September 26, 2022 at 06:50 PM

@luckysnipe - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

Guidelines
- You can rename your ticket with /rename <ticket name> or with the button below
- If this ticket was created by accident or it can be deleted, you can use /delete within the first 5 minutes, otherwise ask a Scholar.
- When you are ready to submit the ticket, compile everything into one message following the format below and pin it. Then type /close or click the button below; the ticket will automatically be moved to be reviewed.
- To add contributors to your ticket you can use /contributor add <user>.
- The ticket will be scrapped if: no activity >1 week or open for >1 month.

Write-up Format

Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion

luckysnipeMon, September 26, 2022 at 06:50 PM

Tested using a dragonspine spear, bursting right after a normal attack so that the icicle falls during the burst window. As can be seen through the videos, a non burst icicle crit hits for 448, whereas a bursted icicle crit lands for 644 damage.

This makes sense mathematically as per the defence formula, 190/(190+195x(0.4)) = 0.709, and 190 / (190+195) = 0.4935

finding the ratio between these two, we reach a 43.66% dmg increase, and 448 x 1.4366 = 644, rounded up

The significance of this finding is that it may shed light onto how or why future defence ignores may interact with c2 raiden. For example, if a future defence ignore applies to all electro damage, it may stack additively with c2 raiden, or it may stack multiplicatively since they apply to different things. In Raiden's case, all damage during her burst, and in the hypothetical's case, all electro damage

Finding: Raiden's C2 applies to physical damage
Evidence: https://youtu.be/x6jCqOm-NTs https://youtu.be/tWVGjXyRFP8
Tested using a dragonspine spear, bursting right after a normal attack so that the icicle falls during the burst window. As can be seen through the videos, a non burst icicle crit hits for 448, whereas a bursted icicle crit lands for 644 damage.
This makes sense mathematically as per the defence formula, 190/(190+195x(0.4)) = 0.709, and 190 / (190+195) = 0.4935
finding the ratio between these two, we reach a 43.66% dmg increase, and 448 x 1.4366 = 644, rounded up
Significance: The significance of this finding is that it proves without a doubt that any and all damage during raiden's burst with c2 will ignore defence by 60%. Including physical damage. Outside of this one interaction there is no way to do normal/charged/weapon proc attacks on Raiden during her burst, so this will serve as confirmation in the future if this becomes possible, that all damage done by Raiden herself during her burst will undergo the defence ignore, and not just skills/burst/electro damage

TiBotMon, September 26, 2022 at 07:22 PM

Ticket closed by @luckysnipe. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 02:20 AM

The thing is, Raiden's C2 is specifically reworded that it works for Raiden's attacks during burst (before the reword it was stated that only her burst attacks has Def ignore), and its not really surprising that the weapon's attack which is wielded by her is counted as Raiden's attack too
So really any attack by Raiden and her weapon will get the Def ignore during burst, no matter what type of damage it is

And I highly doubt that Hyv is gonna bother with Def shred for specific elements when RES shred already exists and has detail stats for each elements in the Character stats screen too, while Def only has one stat since forever

Therefore I fail to see the reasoning backing the Siginificance at all
Why would you talk about something that doesn't exist yet?
Can you elaborate on it futher?

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:16 AM

Ticket re-opened by @luckysnipe

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:20 AM

There's currently two forms of defence manipulation, being shred and ignore. A lot of different characters have shred. C2 klee, c4 ayaka, c4 razor, lisa as some examples. Only two have ignore, being c2 raiden and c6 yae. We know how shred works with ignore, being multiplicatively. We know how shred works with shred, additively. What is unclear is how ignore works with ignore. It's possible that it works multiplicatively unless the exact condition is the same, skill damage in yae's case, and all damage in Raiden's case. It could also be the case that it works additively like shred, despite the fact that unlike shred, ignore seems to be only assigned when there's a specific condition

since def shred is universal in all cases and def ignore is specific

daibangdenTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:21 AM

it's additively

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:21 AM

i'm exploring the exact condition in which c2 raiden functions, which seems to be ALL damage

during burst

daibangdenTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:22 AM

all dmg is to be expected

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:23 AM

if it happens to be that c2 raiden stacks multiplicatively with future more specific def ignore, for example one that applies to skills only, this could be the reason why

because of the more broad condition

Reply to

daibangden: all dmg is to be expected

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:24 AM

there's no way to deal physical damage in raiden's burst outside of this one interaction though

daibangdenTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:24 AM

well if you use that as an example then how about c6 Sara and crit dmg in general?

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:24 AM

it could have easily just been coded as "electro damage during raiden's burst"

and no one would have been the wiser

so this clarifies that it's indeed all damage and not just electro damage, or not just burst+skill attacks

in fact outside of this interaction there's no way for raiden to deal damage specifically through a weapon for that matter

(during burst)

daibangdenTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:30 AM

what i think is ALL dmg is to be expected, and the finding is ok as confirmation, but the significance is kinda unrelated

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:30 AM

Regardless of that, as Wednesday has already said, ALL Raiden's dmg has Def ignore during burst, it's expected
And Def ignore for specific elements hasn't even exist yet so why would you even bring it up for sth you can't prove?

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:30 AM

it just says raiden's attacks

could've just as well been just the skill+burst

i'm sure we aren't strangers to hyv's coding inconsistencies

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:33 AM

I agree that this ticket can be use to confirm it but the Sigificance part needs to be adjust accordingly

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:34 AM

i can do that

my first time doing something like this, the def ignore thing was kind of a pipedream seeing if it would've been feasible to hit 90%+ ignore sometime in the future

then i got in the intricacies of whether it'd be multiplicative or not

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:35 AM

Yeah but there is no way to test it

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:35 AM

depending on how its coded

daibangdenTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:36 AM

you can just write it as confirmation for the interacrion, the part where it talks about potential future things is kinda not related

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:36 AM

And Def shred is hard cap at 90% so I won't expect much

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:38 AM

I updated the post

how do you pin it by the way?

the guidelines say to pin it but i dont have the privilege

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:39 AM

Do you have 2FA?

If not you can't pin

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:39 AM

aeveanleeowTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:40 AM

dont need to pin it

just say, reply to the original post in a new message before u close it

so people who want to verify can jump to it

its not a very long ticket though so people can just scroll up, its fine either way

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:41 AM

Ticket closed by @luckysnipe. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

Ticket verified by @aeveanleeow

aeveanleeowTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:44 AM

err wait no

i take that back

how to unverify

wait no

i take back my take back

actually, i take back my takeback of my takeback

for completeness, could you get a shot of your character stats ?

well, its a nitpick more than anything else, since the numbers are specific enough and i doubt you went out of your way to fake it

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:46 AM

@luckysnipe can you reopen the ticket?

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:47 AM

Ticket re-opened by @luckysnipe

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:47 AM

what's up

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:47 AM

It should clears all verifications

aeveanleeowTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:47 AM

can u get a screenshot of stats or smth like that

just for completeness

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:47 AM

sure, cons page too?

aeveanleeowTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:48 AM

theoretically you could "fake" it even though its a pain and i doubt u did that

hmm yea maybe a video would be easier, just select thru the relevant parts, up to u ultimately

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:49 AM

just in the ticket is fine or should it be part of the

one message thing

whatever its called

oh, would that enka site be fine? or ingame @aeveanleeow

aeveanleeowTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:51 AM

honestly this is just a nitpick, i really doubt u went out of ur way to fake the damage

i dont even know what enka is

should be in the ticket

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:52 AM

i mean

you know how its supposed to be in one message right?

there or just in this thread?

but here's the ingame video

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:57 AM

Yeah include it in your write-up, if it's a image you have to upload it on imgur and then link it in your write-up

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:57 AM

alright

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 03:59 AM

Ticket closed by @luckysnipe. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

Reply to

luckysnipe: alright

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 04:02 AM

Upload that video on youtube too pls

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 04:03 AM

Ticket re-opened by @luckysnipe

luckysnipeTue, September 27, 2022 at 04:05 AM

Finding: Raiden's C2 applies to physical damage
Evidence: https://youtu.be/x6jCqOm-NTs https://youtu.be/tWVGjXyRFP8 https://youtu.be/IAOLuuLMN_U
Tested using a dragonspine spear, bursting right after a normal attack so that the icicle falls during the burst window. As can be seen through the videos, a non burst icicle crit hits for 448, whereas a bursted icicle crit lands for 644 damage.
This makes sense mathematically as per the defence formula, 190/(190+195x(0.4)) = 0.709, and 190 / (190+195) = 0.4935
finding the ratio between these two, we reach a 43.66% dmg increase, and 448 x 1.4366 = 644, rounded up
Significance: The significance of this finding is that it proves without a doubt that any and all damage during raiden's burst with c2 will ignore defence by 60%. Including physical damage. Outside of this one interaction there is no way to do normal/charged/weapon proc attacks on Raiden during her burst, so this will serve as confirmation in the future if this becomes possible, that all damage done by Raiden herself during her burst will undergo the defence ignore, and not just skills/burst/electro damage

TiBotTue, September 27, 2022 at 04:05 AM

Ticket closed by @luckysnipe. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.

( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, September 27, 2022 at 04:06 AM

That's should do it
Sorry I made you reopen the ticket multiple times lol