KQM | Genshin Impact
shinobu-basic-mechanics
66 messages
TiBotTue, June 21, 2022, 10:00 AM
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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
ReensTue, June 21, 2022, 10:01 AM
Shinobu Basic Mechanics ticket
Put all mechanics findings for Shinobu here. This ticket is NOT meant to be for discussion.
Shinobu Character Page: https://library.keqingmains.com/shinobu
────────────
Here are some questions we'd like answered:
1) ICD and Gauges for all elemental attacks
2) C4 proc ICD and Gauge
3) Particles?
4) A4 EM to DMG% Conversion
5) Shape of E and Q hitboxes. (Mainly, if they have any vertical range or not.)
6) Does she snapshot on E and Q?
────────────
Put all mechanics findings for Shinobu here. This ticket is NOT meant to be for discussion.
Shinobu Character Page: https://library.keqingmains.com/shinobu
────────────
Here are some questions we'd like answered:
1) ICD and Gauges for all elemental attacks
2) C4 proc ICD and Gauge
3) Particles?
4) A4 EM to DMG% Conversion
5) Shape of E and Q hitboxes. (Mainly, if they have any vertical range or not.)
6) Does she snapshot on E and Q?
────────────
Shinobu
The capable and reliable deputy leader of the
bakane_Tue, June 21, 2022, 11:00 AM
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's Elemental Skill and Elemental Burst ICD are Standard. Elemental Skill Initial Cast DMG and Tick DMG share the same ICD
Evidence: https://youtu.be/ztZgTo3ugUw
Signifance. Her ICD
Evidence: https://youtu.be/ztZgTo3ugUw
Signifance. Her ICD
✅1
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's Elemental Burst Gauge is 1U
Evidence: https://youtu.be/MGJqkhM9z3I
Significance: Elemental Burst Gauge
Evidence: https://youtu.be/MGJqkhM9z3I
Significance: Elemental Burst Gauge
✅1
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's Elemental Skill Initial Cast Gauge is 1U
Evidence: https://youtu.be/G1hqKcd6aWc
Significance: Elemental Skill Initial Cast Gauge
Evidence: https://youtu.be/G1hqKcd6aWc
Significance: Elemental Skill Initial Cast Gauge
✅1
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's Elemental Skill Tick Gauge is 1U
Evidence: https://youtu.be/iJuhklXA3kY
Significance: Elemental Skill Tick Gauge
Evidence: https://youtu.be/iJuhklXA3kY
Significance: Elemental Skill Tick Gauge
✅1
zakharov29229Tue, June 21, 2022, 11:14 AMFinding: Kuki Shinobu has a 40% chance of generating a particle on every E tick (36 particles generated from 88 E ticks in testing)
EDIT: Datamine says 45% to generate a particle, someone will need to do more thorough testing to determine which is right
Evidence: https://youtu.be/VIy9dJp-JUQ
Significance: particle count
1
EDIT: Datamine says 45% to generate a particle, someone will need to do more thorough testing to determine which is right
Evidence: https://youtu.be/VIy9dJp-JUQ
Significance: particle count
1
nzpiefaceTue, June 21, 2022, 11:41 AM
things to find:
Does she snapshot on E and Q?
What is the HP threshold for her E to stop draining HP? im dumb its in the skill desc 
Does she snapshot on E and Q?
daibangdenTue, June 21, 2022, 12:18 PM
Finding: Shinobu's skill does not snapshot
Evidence: https://youtu.be/g0JdXZj4HJQ
Evidence: https://youtu.be/g0JdXZj4HJQ
✅1
trosalioTue, June 21, 2022, 03:05 PM
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's Q can swirl 3 times out of 7 hits at normal and
5 times out of 13 hits when her hp drops below 50%
Evidence:
https://youtu.be/e7cOR6YO3_c
Significance: Total hit and swirl count
5 times out of 13 hits when her hp drops below 50%
Evidence:
https://youtu.be/e7cOR6YO3_c
Significance: Total hit and swirl count
Total hit and swirl count of Kuki Shinobu's Q
Kuki Shinobu's Q can swirl 3 times out of 7 hits at normal and
5 times out of 13 hits when her hp drops below 50%
5 times out of 13 hits when her hp drops below 50%
Memento MoriTue, June 21, 2022, 03:14 PM
First, this is an ICD test like Akane's , and second, I only count 2 swirls on the first and 3 swirls on the second Lesson: Don't rely on reaction texts or icons, use numbers 💀
daibangdenTue, June 21, 2022, 03:21 PM
it is 3 and 5, but ye it's just icd test, not all texts appear
emmausTue, June 21, 2022, 03:21 PM
I count 5 waves hitting the edge of the screen on the second one, though there were only 3 swirl indicators
mgr_Tue, June 21, 2022, 05:19 PM
Finding: The number of hit from Kuki Shinobu's below 50%HP Q is affected by FPS.
Evidence:
30fps - 11 hits: https://youtu.be/g1M5aBp8F90
30fps - 12 hits: https://youtu.be/Rh2aHifxL64
60fps - 13 hits: https://youtu.be/INA_H8Wly7M
3
Evidence:
30fps - 11 hits: https://youtu.be/g1M5aBp8F90
30fps - 12 hits: https://youtu.be/Rh2aHifxL64
60fps - 13 hits: https://youtu.be/INA_H8Wly7M
3Memento MoriTue, June 21, 2022, 05:29 PM
Note regarding how FPS affects Q: Would like to see more footage at 30 fps, anyone is welcome to provide. This is important to determine whether 11 hits is common or rare. 12 hits is what hoyo expected, and they likely base their benchmarks on 30 fps. If 11 hits is common at 30 fps, something is very wrong.
TibotTue, June 21, 2022, 05:30 PM
Also please re-upload the videos to imgur/youtube; streamable deletes old videos after a while which might have happened to some footage in the past
2
2👍1
emmausTue, June 21, 2022, 08:19 PM
Finding: Kuki Shinobu Elemental Skill hitbox extends slightly above the visual effect
Evidence: https://youtu.be/ENhVQtSF8VQ
Significance: Knowing the skill's vertical range
Evidence: https://youtu.be/ENhVQtSF8VQ
Significance: Knowing the skill's vertical range
👍1
✅1
Memento MoriTue, June 21, 2022, 10:04 PM
Finding
Kuki's burst at low hp and played at a 30 fps setting appears to be somewhat RNG in terms of how many instances of damage there are per burst. Over 30 instances, an average of 11.7 damage ticks per burst was counted, with each one being either 11 or 12 ticks.
Evidence
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PvFk2bDjM1VnLFty8DTkXG9CC8LXOPpyHhE4rjQJQNM/edit?usp=sharing
Additional Notes
The footage used here had a variable ping between 90 and 110. More footage is needed at low ping to eliminate the possibility of network latency and variability in ping being a factor in this.
Kuki's burst at low hp and played at a 30 fps setting appears to be somewhat RNG in terms of how many instances of damage there are per burst. Over 30 instances, an average of 11.7 damage ticks per burst was counted, with each one being either 11 or 12 ticks.
Evidence
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PvFk2bDjM1VnLFty8DTkXG9CC8LXOPpyHhE4rjQJQNM/edit?usp=sharing
Additional Notes
The footage used here had a variable ping between 90 and 110. More footage is needed at low ping to eliminate the possibility of network latency and variability in ping being a factor in this.
.prog.Tue, June 21, 2022, 10:56 PM
Finding: Low hp burst at low ping may have 12 damage ticks at 60 fps
Evidence: https://youtu.be/7M3GwSCbHGg
Evidence: https://youtu.be/7M3GwSCbHGg
twce_Wed, June 22, 2022, 01:59 AM
Finding: Shinobu's burst has 7 hits regularly
Evidence: https://youtu.be/SGuHpV_gGQk frame counts in description
Significance: Counting
Evidence: https://youtu.be/SGuHpV_gGQk frame counts in description
Significance: Counting
Shinobu Burst Count
Kuki Shinobu's burst can have as few as 7 procs on smaller enemies/those on the edge of her burst.
Frame counts:
50 - burst begins
99 - hitmark 1
117 - hitmark 2
135 - hitmark 3
152 - hitmark 4
170 - hitmark 5
188 - hitmark 6
206 - hitmark 7
Frame counts:
50 - burst begins
99 - hitmark 1
117 - hitmark 2
135 - hitmark 3
152 - hitmark 4
170 - hitmark 5
188 - hitmark 6
206 - hitmark 7
ArachnoParadoxWed, June 22, 2022, 02:03 AM
you have to be below 50% hp to get the extended burst duration, 7 hits is normal at full health
twce_Wed, June 22, 2022, 02:05 AM
Oops you right
Updated, thanks for the catch @ArachnoParadox
Memento MoriWed, June 22, 2022, 02:09 AM
khiesWed, June 22, 2022, 11:09 AM
do we already know if kuki's EM scaling is additive or multiplicative?
emmausWed, June 22, 2022, 11:50 AM
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's A4 passive healing is additive
Evidence: https://youtu.be/PioUWJx2YIU
At 0em 997
At 192em 1141
Diff 144
Predicted Additive Healing: 0.75 * 192 = 144
I don't know how multiplicative would be
Evidence: https://youtu.be/PioUWJx2YIU
At 0em 997
At 192em 1141
Diff 144
Predicted Additive Healing: 0.75 * 192 = 144
I don't know how multiplicative would be
✅1
Finding: Kuki Shinobu's A4 passive healing is affected by healing bonus
Evidence: https://youtu.be/b5KXuFh1pAw
Using 15% Healing Bonus from A1 passive and 192em from Sucrose A4
At 0em 1146
At 192em 1312
Diff 166
Predicted Healing: 0.75 * 192 * 1.15 = 165.6
Evidence: https://youtu.be/b5KXuFh1pAw
Using 15% Healing Bonus from A1 passive and 192em from Sucrose A4
At 0em 1146
At 192em 1312
Diff 166
Predicted Healing: 0.75 * 192 * 1.15 = 165.6
Evidence: https://youtu.be/rXXRSxbNSD4
Using 15% Healing Bonus from A1 passive and 242em from Sucrose 2 passives
At 0em 1146
At 242em 1355
Diff 209
Predicted Healing: 0.75 * 242 * 1.15 = 208.725
Using 15% Healing Bonus from A1 passive and 242em from Sucrose 2 passives
At 0em 1146
At 242em 1355
Diff 209
Predicted Healing: 0.75 * 242 * 1.15 = 208.725
✅1
bakane_Wed, June 22, 2022, 12:07 PM
what talent levels?
emmausWed, June 22, 2022, 12:09 PM
c0
bakane_Wed, June 22, 2022, 12:09 PM
ok so
i did calcs and it seems to be correct on the first video
second video is also correct. Edited this cause i am 
can just slap the a4 portion into the main healing formula along with the flat hp increase
can just slap the a4 portion into the main healing formula along with the flat hp increaseMemento MoriWed, June 22, 2022, 03:41 PM
Update to previous finding, @蛍 provided some footage for low ping.
Finding
Ping does not play a roll in how many damage ticks Kuki Shinobu's burst may have. FPS still does, though.
Evidence
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PvFk2bDjM1VnLFty8DTkXG9CC8LXOPpyHhE4rjQJQNM/edit#gid=774661355
Additional Notes
Lower sample size means the average could be a fluke, but most likely not, as it lines up with the previous finding too well.
Working average of burst ticks counts is 11.71
The ping not playing a roll here should be extrapolatable to other FPS as well.
Finding
Ping does not play a roll in how many damage ticks Kuki Shinobu's burst may have. FPS still does, though.
Evidence
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PvFk2bDjM1VnLFty8DTkXG9CC8LXOPpyHhE4rjQJQNM/edit#gid=774661355
Additional Notes
Lower sample size means the average could be a fluke, but most likely not, as it lines up with the previous finding too well.
Working average of burst ticks counts is 11.71
The ping not playing a roll here should be extrapolatable to other FPS as well.
BlueBeryWed, June 22, 2022, 05:35 PM
Finding: C4 is separate ICD than skill.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/KXMqiHhOr1w
Significance: More viable in overload teams. From 5 overloads per skill duration at C0 to 9 at C4.
Evidence: https://youtu.be/KXMqiHhOr1w
Significance: More viable in overload teams. From 5 overloads per skill duration at C0 to 9 at C4.
✅1
I don't know if this is good enuf evidence or not. but 9 overload procs during E duration.
twce_Wed, June 22, 2022, 07:10 PM
Can you test if C4 scales with skill or burst damage 
1
1emmausWed, June 22, 2022, 07:31 PM
c4 is triggered while Skill is active
BlueBeryWed, June 22, 2022, 08:38 PM
Okay. I will try
BlueBeryWed, June 22, 2022, 08:46 PM
Looks like it scales with skill damage. I tested with and without gambler. Do you need a video for this?
twce_Wed, June 22, 2022, 08:49 PM
Probably just useful to have here tbh
BlueBeryWed, June 22, 2022, 08:52 PM
𝓕𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓪 𝓦𝓪𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓡𝓸𝓸𝓶Thu, June 23, 2022, 03:54 AM
Can you test for its Gauge?
BlueBeryThu, June 23, 2022, 05:01 AM
is amber charged shot 2U?
Finding: C4 is 1U
Evidence: video below.
Significance: Unknown
Evidence: video below.
Significance: Unknown
✅1
It was quite hard to test that since enemies has to be affected by the ring first
𝓕𝓾𝓻𝓲𝓷𝓪 𝓦𝓪𝓲𝓽𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝓡𝓸𝓸𝓶Thu, June 23, 2022, 05:39 AM
topaz topaz topaz topaz topaz toThu, June 23, 2022, 01:50 PM
I know it's relevant stuff but let's minimize back and forths chats in this channel, it helps collect all the information more easily at the end 
Feel free to use #theorycrafting or #tc-kuki-shinobu instead
Feel free to use #theorycrafting or #tc-kuki-shinobu insteadBlueBeryThu, June 23, 2022, 10:02 PM
Finding: C4 can give particle
Evidence: https://youtu.be/08wZg7eMZZw
Significance: Particle gen
Evidence: https://youtu.be/08wZg7eMZZw
Significance: Particle gen
✅1
Memento MoriThu, June 23, 2022, 10:07 PM
Can you do 2 more tests to see if drop chance is 100%?
BlueBeryThu, June 23, 2022, 10:10 PM
It's not 100%. Around 50%. I'm not sure
Finding: Doesn't have CD between particle generation, between C4 and E
Evidence: video below.
Significance: Particle gen https://youtu.be/5Vj_mTyL4e8
Evidence: video below.
Significance: Particle gen https://youtu.be/5Vj_mTyL4e8
Memento MoriThu, June 23, 2022, 10:14 PM
You mean C4 and E do not share particle gen cd
1
1BlueBeryThu, June 23, 2022, 10:15 PM
ah shoot I lost the video
💀1
nzpiefaceFri, June 24, 2022, 03:47 AM
@BlueBery Would it be possible for you to put your videos onto Youtube?
1
1
vitormalcherFri, June 24, 2022, 04:03 PM
So this would avarage out as a extra 1.5 energy gain per E? Not bad.
The targeting of her Burst seems to be chosen at the start, so if the nearest target dashes away after you pressed Q, she will still target them. Can anyone confirm that? Just got screwed over by that during an abyss testing.
my silly wisher luck is betterThu, June 30, 2022, 11:53 PM
What artifacts sets/stats are looking to be good for her?
YumeThu, June 30, 2022, 11:58 PM
#neuvillette-hutao-help check pins here
BlueBeryMon, July 4, 2022, 06:10 AM
I uploaded mine on YT. You can check my edited previous chat
TiBotTue, August 16, 2022, 03:12 PM
Creating transcript...