Server Icon
KQM | Genshin Impact
star-jade-creation-and-consumption
529 messages
Avatar
TiBotSat, November 12, 2022 at 01:17 PM
@Anmaru - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

Guidelines
- You can rename your ticket with /rename <ticket name> or with the button below
- If this ticket was created by accident or it can be deleted, you can use /delete within the first 5 minutes, otherwise ask a Scholar.
- When you are ready to submit the ticket, compile everything into one message following the format below and pin it. Then type /close or click the button below; the ticket will automatically be moved to be reviewed.
- To add contributors to your ticket you can use /contributor add <user>.
- The ticket will be scrapped if: no activity >1 week or open for >1 month.
Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion
This ticket has been renamed to Ning can generate 2 Star Jades with one NA by @Anmaru
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 01:21 PM
ill upload a compilation of instances cuz im still not entirely sure how it happens πŸ˜…
Ena β€” Today at 03:40
so the star jade haves like a timer((1 sec??)) for generation and the star jades are generated also based on length of "animation cast" not just hit? like XQ burst for example chaining 2 arrow waves one a single NA animation?

and if next attack animation takes longer than that length it can also generate a second star jade? or what?
dint realize until now also that Ninguan NA chain is not interrupted and keeps following its chain when cast CA in middle of it
an odd medium β€” Today at 03:44
that does sound plausible since we know something similar already happens w XQ and YL
i had a look at the footage again and it seems to trigger the jades twice on all three NA animations
@ena6013
sorry for the ping lol
migth be dependent on NA animation length, but the inconsistency and it being able to be triggered on all three NA variants might mean theres other factors
maybe a specific collision/reaction delay between the two NA projectiles might have smth to do with it??
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, November 12, 2022 at 02:49 PM
does your Ning have C1?
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 02:49 PM
yes, shes c5
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 02:55 PM
ah yes they do hit maybe at different frames right one after the other, and the jade spawn is kinda delayed also

btw in last video why at second 12 did last CA from ninguan used only 1 jade and not 2 there at end second 11 right after twirll NA in last video? and after it there wasnt left 1 star jade also from that twirl, so ehh we can also lose 1 star jade after NA if do CA too soon?
Avatar
f99shiSat, November 12, 2022 at 02:55 PM
the cooldown seems to be 0.1s
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 02:59 PM
looks like it yeah, the jade seemed to still have its spawning in animation until CA was cast, good find
usually this wouldnt happen because of the NA to CA delay right? so it usually shouldnt be a problem unless ur spawning two jades within a short interval
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:01 PM
well in that case it wasnt even a 2 jade spawn, its normal 1 star jade, and CA was cast before the star jade got formed, but not used to do dmg in CA cast, but still "consumed" cuz we dont see it after the CA
πŸ’―1
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:02 PM
guess i charged too quickly haha
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:03 PM
well both issue are not present in TCL library so now you got more stuff on fire to show :pepela:
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:03 PM
LOL quite true, do u guys usually make a new ticket for additional findings like this
if so then its definitely urs to take haha
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:04 PM
no idea, i dont want to do work πŸ˜›
you can always rename ticket to include it
πŸ˜†1
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:05 PM
ill include, lemme think
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:05 PM
like "star jade creation and consumption" , or can give it amore fun name liek other peopel do :pepela:
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:06 PM
ning peanut spawn and succ
my first ticket so ill be more academically rigorous for now LOL
Avatar
TiBotSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:07 PM
This ticket has been renamed to star jade creation and consumption by @Anmaru
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:15 PM
Can always go and torment 1 or couple of mobs same spot with Ninguan and see if it happens often enough real fights with 1 gem from NA hitting 1 then later the second one
just to get 1 example working
VS big target it may be hard to replicate cuz their hit box will be like a "big wall" and both gems will always hit same time same frame.. :--> : |
well unless that target also turns around and twirls is like primo geovishap front hits box " | turns in to \ " and lets both gems from na -> : -> :\
hit it at different frames??
that is ofc assuming the "fault" of double star jade spawn is of the double gems from NA cast hitting at different frames i guess? and its not another issue triggering it??
πŸ‘1
Avatar
nzpiefaceSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:18 PM
classic scope creep
πŸ˜†1
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:19 PM
ill try and see if i can get this working, otherwise ill do it tmrw morning cuz its 4am LOL
but sounds like a plan
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:20 PM
i suspect theres more to it since theres instances where the same animation plays with the same jade collisions, but only one produces a double jade
let me find timestamps
2nd video 0:04 and 0:16
ooh yeah it works with with grouped up mobs
let me upload the footage
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:33 PM
those are the timers for CA cast consuming jades?
the 0.04 makes it look as if from 2 cossumed star jades gems only 1 flew to target with CA? but it was there was plenty of time after its spawn to get properly used to do dmg together with CA, so maybe it got hidden by the CA animation? or flew in to ground and we dint see it?
So we need live targets and see dmg numbers on CA cast "soon" before the star jade gets "consolidated" to spawn for use -> and also be sure it dint got randomly cast in to the ground, so maybe cast Ninguna CA from an "above position"
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:43 PM
also oops sorry i shouldve specified, 0:04 and 0:16 are the starting times for ning's right hand NA
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:49 PM
yah you right, my bad the CA was at sec 2 there, but the speech about CA casting too soon and consuming a star jade -> but not using to do dmg should be tested vs a single target for clarity of view if can to get a confirmation
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:51 PM
i will leave that one for tmrw morning haha
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 03:51 PM
ye calmly none is rushing :love:
i was just curious also on the whole ordeal
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 03:52 PM
yeah same, id love to use this if we manage to figure out the cause
thanks for the help and analysis! πŸ˜‹
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSat, November 12, 2022 at 06:55 PM
I spent 5 minutes smacking the stove with Ning and I think it's wack https://youtu.be/NtrF1fuZE3s

NAs that produce 2 Star Jade:
Right gem hits first:
-1:07 counting from the frame the 1st gem hits to the frame the 2nd gem disappears is 0.1s, but counting to the 2nd hit effect is 0.167s
-2:07, 0.1s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame
-2:29, 0.1s 2nd gem disappears, 0.133s 2nd hit effect
-3:11, 0.1s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame
-3:52, 0.1s 2nd gem disappears, 0.133s 2nd hit effect
-3:56, 0.067s 2nd gem disappears, 0.1s 2nd hit effect
-4:35, 0.067s 2nd gem disappears, 0.1s 2nd hit effect

However, if left gem hits first:
-2:41, 0.1s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame (my frames kinda freeze a bit here)
-3:06, 0.067s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame
-3:16, 0.067s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame
-4:20, 0.067s, 2nd gem and 2nd hit effect happens at the same frame

Definitely needs 60fps footage to be sure but others NA hits difference can range from 0s, 0.033s, 0.067s, and even 0.1s, 0.133s but no double Star Jade :hmmok:
So I kinda doubt the 0.1s cooldown theory, it's might be random
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 07:43 PM
btw you can go in teapot and hit the stove there and the dog samurai with plenty of time of delay between them twin gems hitting at different times
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 07:45 PM
there is something else afoot besides just them hitting at different intervals
cuz after spending all the star gems on CA i rarely managed to proc 2 star hades from 1 NA there, only after that point was more easy to do it once got my first star jade
Avatar
f99shiSat, November 12, 2022 at 07:45 PM
probably just ping/lag related then
0.1s is from datamine
Avatar
ena6013Sat, November 12, 2022 at 07:53 PM
we need a better target object to test that we can force more often the 2 gems from NA to hit a different timers/frames
like something plainly straight so we can hit it from an angle always :--> :\

commission wooden barricades should work, but non of my servers haves them today
do we have something else similar in overworld? so we can spam then NA and know they always hit at different intervals there
the dog and and oven is too random in teapot realm
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 11:15 PM
ooh great work spotting this trend, ill see if i get similar results with my ping at 60fps. also, ive found that smacking the stove perpendicularly was more inconsistent than smacking at an angle (like in my 2nd and 3rd initial finding videos)
our ping differs by ~100ms so it might be possible that the angle of attack influences the delay needed to form double jades -- just a guess for me to explore though
Avatar
AnmaruSat, November 12, 2022 at 11:18 PM
would be good to test consistency with different combinations of NA CA and number of jades present once we find a suitable location to replicate
i can consistently (~80-90% from around 20 tries) reproduce double star jades using the inazuma stove with the sign beside, ill send some 60fps footage to pair with this
double jades working consistently (100% rate in this case): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VY4NmX8YN8
- collision points: sign & wall behind stove; delay between the two hits seem to fall within the interval needed to generate 2 jades
- works with all NA variants
- CA animation doesnt seem to have an influence on generation (see 0:58 for CA, pause and N1 -- only one attempt and the time between CA and N1 might be too short to rule this out though)
Poggies1
working ~50% against regisvine hitbox: https://youtu.be/GUTP8jrndLw
NA variants: TW (twirl), LH (left hand), RH (right hand)
Frame counting: exclude first frame of 1st jade hit/dmg number, to first frame of 2nd jade hit/dmg

Double star jade
- 0:27, 12 frame collision delay, 14 frame dmg delay (hugging) TW
- 0:34, 15 frame collision delay, 18 frame dmg delay (hugging) LH
- 1:07, 12 frame collision delay, 12 frame dmg delay (hugging) TW
- 1:36, 20 frame collision delay, 24 frame dmg delay (hugging) [not sure what NA animation this is]

No double star jade
- 0:22, 2 frame collision delay, 6 frame dmg delay (hugging) RH
- 0:45, 3 frame collision delay, 1 frame dmg delay (close) RH
- 0:52, 2 frame collision delay, 6 frame dmg delay (mid range) TW

All other instances occurred with 0 collision and dmg delay (or i probably missed them πŸ˜…)
- doesnt work when NA projectiles track from long range
- seems to require delay between ~12* to ~24 frames for 2 jades to be created
- (double jade) each jade is created when their corresponding dmg numbers show up
- (one jade) jade created on first projectile's dmg number

*minimum 11 frames from inazuma stove clip
lmfao i just tested long range where the second peanut hits an enemy a long while after the first and each peanut generates a jade each
so im leaning towards there being an ICD < 11 frames
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:15 AM
huh shouldn't it be 6 frames minimum ICD
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:16 AM
might be, my 11 frames was just based on my own footage which i had frames for
if its 6 frames then even better
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:18 AM
is there a spot where you can hit something with 6 frames difference reliably :keqhmm:
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:18 AM
LMAO
come treasure hunting with me
i mean
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:19 AM
we can use this spot
the frames can be varied by changing the angle between the sign and the wall, the video shows a frame diff of 12
anyone got a map of stoves lmfao, i could go to every city's kitchen to try this
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:32 AM
I'm gonna be deadge for the entirety of today so I can't help :Gladge:
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 02:34 AM
all good, ur input has been helpful haha
ill let u know how it goes
bruh the ICD is real whack https://youtu.be/4c8o2xXip2Y
cuz initially it seemed that the ICD was < 10 frames, but after the 1:00 mark, 10 frames stopped generating double jades
6 frames also started generating double jades, but not 5, 4 or 8
ill put the timestamps in the video description
ping seems to get pretty choppy near the end, so might need someone else with lower ping to verify the ICD frames
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:23 AM
can you disconnect your internet and try hitting the stove to see if it generates jade?
usually you'll have 10-15s to work with before the game tries to reconnect
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:30 AM
yeah jades dont generate whatsoever when the internet is disconnected
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:37 AM
fuck so it IS ping related :ohno:
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:38 AM
another ping dependent mechanic :pepelaugh:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:39 AM
I hate this :artesians:
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 03:39 AM
we need to find a local 1ms gamer for this
also potential practical application/significance lmfao: N2 into CA can reliably produce 3 star jades when hugging boss enemies (and maybe other hitboxes): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhnk5-FX1Oc
just tried with c0 ning and it doesnt work for the stoves (probably because the projectile AOE is too small for the 2nd hit to connect)
not sure if this also applies to enemies yet though
Finding Summary 1
1.1 Star Jade Creation and Consumption Ping Interactions (update for existing TCL sheet)
Findings: Star Jade creation and CA Stamina deduction are server-side. The consumption of Star Jades to produce projectiles is NOT server-side.

Evidence: https://youtu.be/eUIJZH_O_e4; creation and consumption with and without internet connection.

Significance: Better understanding of Star Jade creation and consumption and their dependence on ping.

2.2 Star Jades can be launched without benefiting from Ningguang's A1
Finding: Ningguang does not benefit from her A1 if she gains Star Jades after a certain cutoff frame from the beginning of her CA animation. This cutoff frame is dependent on the variant of CA she performs [1]. Despite this, Ningguang is still able to launch her Star Jades. [2]

Evidence:
[1]: See sheet "Star Jade Consumption (CA A1 Cutoff)": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9VdFN5xyfgW19rSyuZfPUzDfJkc8CcSNTtZ31eP5Jg
Frame for each CA variant after which A1 no longer applies:
- CA Twirl: 15-16
- CA Left: 10
- CA Right: 10

[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Sw2fSPfwE; instances of Stamina drain while in possession of Star Jades - 0:09, 0:34, 0:49.

Significance: Clarifies why Stamina drain may still occur despite Ningguang being in possession of Star Jades before her CA projectile is fired [2]. As such, N1C spam is not guaranteed to be Stamina-less if her CA is cast too quickly.
Avatar
TiBotSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:13 AM
@Anmaru added @( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | Casdela as contributor
@Anmaru added @ena6013 as contributor
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:25 AM
you only need to add contributor if you're gonna include their vid in your write-up or if you co-write with someone fyi
plus I can't verify if I'm a contributor :Starege:
πŸ˜”1
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:26 AM
ah i see LOL so thats how it works :NotLikeGanyu:
how do i remove πŸ₯²
Avatar
TiBotSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:26 AM
@Anmaru removed @( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | Casdela as contributor
@Anmaru removed @ena6013 as contributor
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:27 AM
we'll see once the incomplete findings are finalised
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:32 AM
can you pin the findings?
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 09:32 AM
nah i dont think i have the perms
tyty
re finding #2: Star Jade consumed without creating projectile --- DISPROVEN
Star jades are always consumed and produces a projectile as long as they are generated before Ning's CA finishes casting (and thereby launching all held jades)

This means a projectile is created regardless of the star jade's current animation.

- Video 1 (short range): https://youtu.be/AwTQ5dCpuAE 0:04, 0:13, 0:36
- Video 2 (long range): https://youtu.be/30Sw2fSPfwE 0:09


Odd case (video 2 0:34): double star jade is generated, but only one is fired because the second jade spawned behind ning after her CA finished casting
keqnote1
revised finding #2 (will append to pin as finding #2.1):
Star jades will produce projectiles on CA cast even if it not visible behind Ningguang, i.e: still in spawning animation, so long as these jades are generated before she finishes her CA cast
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:29 PM
btw what happens if you finish cast CA before second gems from NA hits target at long distance,? she still get the star jaded added? behind her back?
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:31 PM
ye it should still be added, the addition of star jades behind ning should be independent of her CA. the CA only clears the existing jades up until a certain animation frame (u can see the threshold frame in video 2 at 0:34)
so we should expect to see the first NA projectile hit and generate a star jade behind her, then she CA to shoot it off, then the second NA projectile hits far away, generating a new one behind her
Finding Summary 2

3. Star Jade Generation ICD
Finding: Ningguang NA projectiles generate Star Jades with an ICD depndent on ping (6-10 frames on ~196ms) [1], and can be triggered twice per NA (one for each projectile) by delaying their hit times.
As such, it is possible for a single NA to generate two Star Jades. [2]
This is possible for all constellations [3], however, the larger AOE from C1 makes registering hits easier.

Evidence:
[1]: See sheet "NA Projectile ICD (Double Jade)": https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b9VdFN5xyfgW19rSyuZfPUzDfJkc8CcSNTtZ31eP5Jg
[2]: https://youtu.be/9VY4NmX8YN8; Double Jade working on Inazuma stove, utilising back wall for hit delay.
[3]: https://youtu.be/f0Q7xeWIAFg; Double Jade working as expected for C0, demonstrating that C1 AOE does not affect the ICD trigger.
[4]: https://youtu.be/Qhnk5-FX1Oc; Double Jade utilising N2C in combat.

Significance: The low ICD can be used (situationally) to generate more than one Star Jade per NA against certain enemies. Improves the DPS of N1C and N2C combos; though it is more reliable when hitting overlapping hitboxes, or at an angle such that each jade hit is delayed.
e.g: N2C generating 3 Star Jades against a boss enemy hitbox (Aeonblight Drake). [4]
Ningguang Star Jade Frames
NA Projectile ICD (Double Jade)

Timestamp,Delay between projectile hits,Double jade generated,Ping (ms)
Reference: https://youtu.be/4c8o2xXip2Y,
Frames counted after first projectile hit effect
0:23,13,208
0:18,11,213
0:01,10,218
0:06,10,205
0:10,10,2...
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:43 PM
could not find that video 2 at 0.34
but seen it here in your other video at second 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Sw2fSPfwE

also her stamina is not front loaded but more of mid animation taxed
so i guess it needs to see a gem fully formed? before that frame point so it doesn't consumes stamina on CA i guess?
while the gem may be used in CA cast to do dmg, if doesnt forms at certain point it wont help to avoid stamina tax on CA cast? same video above at second 8
πŸ’―1
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:44 PM
ah sorry, i shouldve just given you the link :NotLikeGanyu: , ty for looking through
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:45 PM
i noticed this too but i didnt think too much of it, should we add as another finding?
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:46 PM
is it mentioned in TCL?
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:46 PM
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:47 PM
wait its in the ascension plainly said:
When Ningguang is in possession of Star Jades, her Charged Attack does not consume Stamina.
but maybe you can add for confirmation that on findings of 2.1:
so long as these jades are generated before she finishes her CA cast
right after it, -> to reiterate but will still consume stamina and A1 wil not help if they aren't fully there
or something more clear
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:51 PM
im looking at the long range footage again at 0:34 onwards and the animation for the star jade spawn shows up slightly after the tax occurs
so thats my bad oops
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:53 PM
ooh yeah the short range video https://youtu.be/AwTQ5dCpuAE at 0:02 shows this happening where the gem is generated but u still get deducted stamina
ill amend that then
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:55 PM
maybe there is mentioned on star jade and stamina in the general database of frames
but ye i dont see it in TCL this specific relation mentioned
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:56 PM
ill make a reminder for myself to look at the frame sheet tmrw
tyty for the reference
Avatar
ena6013Sun, November 13, 2022 at 12:56 PM
i mean a1 says it clearly its needs a str jade to be present but not if half formed or at satrt of CA cast or mid or end of CA cast etc
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l5DOZ6RgYYMIxMtJtd7oQNL9WWVNXcQL0nwan7q7QGc/edit#gid=256229191
Frames
Homepage


Introduction
New KQM frame count database and a condensed version of gcsim frames.
Everything in the database tab is added to each character's page on the TCL.
This spreadsheet has comments enabled for everyone, so leave a comment if you find any mistakes.
Feel free to use the frame co...
❀️1
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 12:59 PM
thats true, prob just a minor addition to 2.1 then to be good for clarity, i didnt know about half forming until today haha
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 01:02 PM
I'll look at the TCL later
still deadge
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 01:02 PM
tyty :MonaHeart:
how u feeling dude
deadge day πŸ˜”
Avatar
Reply to Avatar Anmaru: ooh yeah the short range video https://youtu.be/AwTQ5dCpuAE at 0:02 shows this happening where the gem is generated but u still get deducted stamina
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 01:06 PM
this seems to apply even for double jade gen too
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaSun, November 13, 2022 at 01:11 PM
I'm just swarmed with irl stuff mostly
And I kinda inhaled too much gasoline yesterday repainting my doors so both my throat and lungs feel a bit weird but it's probably fine :Starege:
Avatar
AnmaruSun, November 13, 2022 at 01:13 PM
oh geez painting stinks up the whole house, probably need some fan for that then πŸ₯²
cheers for still checking in here even with all that going on
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 11:06 AM
There is indeed no mention of 2.1 [1] finding in the TCL, but
However, star jade(s) in the midst of their spawning animation will not count towards Ning's A1
I think you should include more details to get the point across, like with https://youtu.be/AwTQ5dCpuAE
For example the CA at 0:09, the 1st Star Jade starts spawning 6 frames from when CA animation starts(the earliest spawn frame in the vid, other attempts range from 7 to 17+ frames), stamina tax happens at 29 frames, Star Jades stop orbiting and is forced into fixed place at 39 frames(unclear if the spawn animation is complete or not), Ning release CA at 43 frames, Star Jades release at 53 frames

Is there a vid where the jade "fully spawn"(what does fully spawn looks like anyway?) during CA and no stamina tax? To compare frames, if the Star Jade takes anywhere longer than 32-6=26 frames to "fully spawns" then your hypothesis is correct

also this
As long as the 2nd projectile does not hit and generate a jade before a certain animation frame threshold for Ning's CA
if you could specify which frame it is then it would be great, it seems to be after Ning release CA?
Why do I have a feeling any Star Jade forming after Ning starts CA animation doesn't count toward A1?
Because 26+ frames is too long for a spawning animation and the Jade literally starts orbiting the frame it spawns
There is also an example of the Jade get forced into place to be release by CA 1 frames after forming (0:04, the 2nd Jade that spawn due to ICD), so I strongly think it already finish spawning after frame 1 or even at frame 1 of its appearance
If only there is a vid where the Jade appears 1 frame after Ning starts CA animation to confirm this :kikin:
Interestingly enough the CA at 0:22 only takes 33 frame to release, meaning it's a no Star Jade CA but obviously it still produces Star Jade projectiles, it's also the attempt where Star Jade spawns 17 frames after CA starts
A CA with Star Jade normally takes 45 frames according to the Frames database sheet, while a no Star Jade CA only takes 35 frames
So it's possible to shave 10 frames off the CA animation in exchange for A1 stamina reduction if we time the Star Jade to spawn late into the CA animation :keqhmm:
Is it worth 50 stamina to save 0.1s tho
I haven't even start frame counting the long distance vid yet there is just so much to analyze :ohno:
:artesians: in the CA at 0:01, the Jade spawns 16 frames after CA starts, forced into place at 28 frames and the CA release at 29 frames
it can be even faster than 33 frames OMG
A sheet should be make to compile all this info
I'm gonna frame count all the CA attempts in that vid
Jade frame count at 195ms
0:01, 16f spawn, 29f CA release
0:04, 15f spawn, 33f CA release
0:07, 16f spawn, 29f CA release
0:09, 6f spawn, 43f CA release
0:12, 17f spawn, 33f CA release
0:14, 6f spawn, 44f CA release
0:16, 18f spawn, 34f CA release
0:18, 10f spawn, 43f CA release
0:22, 17f spawn, 33f CA release
0:24, 9f spawn, 43f CA release
0:29, 17f spawn, 33f CA release
0:33, 9f spawn, 42f CA release
0:36, 17f spawn, 33f CA release
keqnote1
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:53 PM
good morning, i wake up to this huge as analysis of the jade spawning :NotLikeGanyu:
ill have a read when i get back later today but what makes this worse is that since we previously determined that the jade generation is server-side, the frames at which they generate in my footage may differ from other levels of ping
so UNLESS the CA consuming jades are also dependent on ping, these frames should be constant right :prayge:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:55 PM
stamina tax is sever side
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:55 PM
god no
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:55 PM
:keqhehe:
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:56 PM
we need someone with less than ~50ms ping to test both the double jade spawning AND stamina tax now :pepelaugh:
great findings tho, ty for going through the clips and analysing the frames
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 02:59 PM
at least the frames is very consistent tho
it always produce the same result
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:00 PM
thats good to hear πŸ₯²
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:00 PM
im not too experienced with sheet building but ill be free to do this in about 12h
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:01 PM
it's just copy and paste the data mostly so it won't be too hard
MonaHeart1
Can you record a vid where you obtain a jade before hand then disconnect, CA to see if consuming jade is sever side?
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:09 PM
give me ~10 mins
i checked before and yeah that was the case
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:10 PM
wtf why is everything server side :keqingPain:
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:11 PM
i agree make it stop
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:11 PM
when this is really happening :pepela:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:12 PM
:ohno:
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:15 PM
oh nvm i lied, consumption is NOT server side, but tax is
ill upload footage showing both
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
oh thank god
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
you dont read my tickets
πŸ˜”1
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
:luminederp:
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
casdela im hurt how could you do this to me :terikan:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
make a list and I'll read it
KeqingSparkle1
promise
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:16 PM
absolutely inconceivable that someone-
actually i have that
lol
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rL7peAMQtdVx5iVP7lNbDfe7g-RKuw6TMuMfFU2iuC4/edit?usp=sharing
ping interactions
Sheet1

name,trigger,server,client,comment,link
albedo e,damage,i fucking hate this,https://youtu.be/FpCKqikOCQA
fischl a4,electro reaction,https://youtu.be/is7BsrPfUCM
ec damage icd,reaction damage,
Poggies1
its not actually comprehensive
but like its good enough to realize whats happening
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:17 PM
lol
you don't even have Ning data :luminederp:
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:19 PM
:keqshrug:
dont need to
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:19 PM
yo if we have a sheet for this alr, we can remove finding #1
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:19 PM
you can general tell whats going on tho
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:19 PM
is that sheet even on TCL?
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:19 PM
why does no one evre fucking read the server side tickets
πŸ˜…1
no
:keqomegalul:
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:20 PM
surely
itd be real good to have
since we have so much frame dependent shit to count for ning :pepelaugh:
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:20 PM
i mean, not my problem
GanyuL1
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:20 PM
when did you even write that ticket I don't know much about stuff before july of this year
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:21 PM
as long as srl implements basically all on damage and all on hit triggers server-side it'll be fine
uh
early this year
:Starege:
image.png
oh
it was late last year
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:22 PM
:luminederp:
I join in March this year
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:23 PM
not my problem :keqL:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:24 PM
anyway, yeah the 1. finding isn't necessary anymore
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:24 PM
does TCL have a search functionality
or open dropdowns and ctrl f
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:24 PM
it used to
Avatar
nzpiefaceMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:25 PM
:crylaughtao: now the search functionality is called ping NZ
pepelaugh1
pepela1
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:25 PM
just search for keyword on google for now :kleek:
PepeGa1
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:25 PM
LMFAO
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:26 PM
ok the jade consumption is tied to animation itself
thank god
it will always be consistent
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 03:26 PM
removed finding 1
yeah thank god
Avatar
kolibri._.Mon, November 14, 2022 at 06:03 PM
in datamine, shit that hooks onto onAttackLanded depends on ping and onBeingHit is client side (albedo e)
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 06:36 PM
I rewatched the vid again and both the 1st and 2nd CA is Star Jade CA, 46f and 44f each
Except the 2nd CA doesn't have any jade :artesians:
It means that the check for if Ning currently has any Star Jade is sever side, and it doesn't update until player reconnect
:keqingPain:
urgh I hope the check happens simultaneously with the Jade spawn so I can just ignore that :life:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaMon, November 14, 2022 at 08:21 PM
Referring to this looks like the check for Star Jade to perfrom Star Jade CA animation happens between 10-15f after CA starts on 195ms ping
But for some reason A1 check happens before that
Istg if A1 actually checks on CA start but animation check is ping dependent I'll be in :keqingPain:
pepelaugh1
I checked the long range vid and believe it or not the Star Jade at 0:34 spawns 1 frame before Ning release CA but it's not converted into projectile
My guess is because only Star Jades spawn before being forced into fixed place (4 frames before CA release) is able to convert to projectiles
Avatar
AnmaruMon, November 14, 2022 at 10:02 PM
ooh so does she use the faster variant of CA when not connected to the internet regardless of jades? (basing off of what u found before where 35f for non jade vs 45 with jade)
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 02:50 AM
if Ning don't have jade when she disconnect then her CA will be 35f, but if she has jade before disconnect all her CA when not connected to the internet will be 45f
because animation check is server side
in that vid Ning has jade before disconnect so all she CA become 45f, even after she has consumed those jade and have none left
πŸ‘€1
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:04 AM
btw this is most likely the animation threshold for your 2.1[2] finding, any jade spawn less than 3 frames before CA release doesn't get convert into projectile for that CA
love1
Avatar
AnmaruTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:21 AM
great find! this is huge confirming this tyty
ill update and review what u sent when i get back (and maybe do a few more jade CA runs when i get back to see if i can get between 1-5 frames before CA release
also re: contributions, even tho i dont add to ticket, is it appropriate to still attribute users to particular findings in the writeup (assuming that ill be doing the writeup)?
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:25 AM
that means they're contributors then :keqingPain:
Avatar
AnmaruTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:26 AM
when i cant functionally add you because it locks u from approving :NotLikeGanyu:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:27 AM
just to be sure can you record a vid where Ning CA with no jade while disconnected
πŸ‘1
Avatar
AnmaruTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:27 AM
ill be back in around 2h so ill post it up by then hopefully
ill probably include this in finding 1.1 (server- client-side disparities) until its reflected in the TCL sheet
then we can consider if it should be published i guess?
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 04:30 AM
just specify in that finding that it's an update for the TCL sheet
πŸ’―1
Avatar
AnmaruTue, November 15, 2022 at 09:01 AM
ayo im not sure how u counted the frames so lmk if this is what u requested, or if i need to change smth https://youtu.be/vdtjqpXhjpg
brain highkey deadge rn :Bedge:
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 09:08 AM
all of those are Star Jade CA, 43+ frames :artesians:
.....
why
does Hyv assume all CA is Star Jade CA, then perform check on server side
fking why
Avatar
AnmaruTue, November 15, 2022 at 09:11 AM
i was so confused as well, i didnt see any difference
do you want to try test it on ur side
it might just be mine thats cucked up
also im uploading footage of me trying to get the 1-5 frame spawn window for the jade before CA release
Avatar
( ΛΆα΅” α΅• α΅”ΛΆ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, November 15, 2022 at 09:13 AM
this is peak 🍝 code
actually insane
who the hell came up with that