KQM | Genshin Impact
stone-stele-mechanics
1346 messages
TiBotMon, January 30, 2023 at 07:45 PM
@Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket
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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or YouTube/Imgur proofs
Significance: Conclusion
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 07:52 PM
Detailed info about Zhongli's particle mechanics is missing from the TCL and Wiki. This ticket is for collecting evidence and documenting the details. Tests that need to be done are as follows. We need many recordings to get good statistical significance. Sheet link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iKkx5FI6RiihCsPHMpXENQIW9l_DBHNbRFPHme7bRq4/edit?usp=sharing
ICD:
¤ [Done] Check if initial hit can produce particles. Yes it can https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069717578915774484
¤ [Done] (C1) Check if initial hit and tick hit ICD are shared. Yes they are: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1070101057058906222 https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069716928958050304
¤ [Done] Show that the ICD is 1.5s. To do this, have C1 Zhongli, and in different tests, deploy and hit with a Stele just before and just after 1.5s after having hit with the first Stele to show that the former doesn't generate any particles while the latter does.
¤ [Done] Show that the ICD is hitlag-extendable. hallelujah we somehow did it
: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1100505092127461517
kolibri's info: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069714138084941914
Particle generation rate:
¤ [Done] 1 Stele.
¤ [Done] 1 Stele and 1 Construct.
¤ [Done] 1 Stele and 2 Constructs.
¤ [Done] Recount the total number of waves in the sheet.
Particle generation rate with desynced pillars:
¤ [Done] (C1) 2 Steles.
¤ [Done] (C1) 2 Steles and 1 Construct.
Co-op tests:
¤ [Done] Show that differen't Zhonglis don't share particle generation ICD.
General:
¤ [Done] Statistical analysis of the generation rates (I'll do them once everything else's done).
ICD:
¤ [Done] Check if initial hit can produce particles. Yes it can https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069717578915774484
¤ [Done] (C1) Check if initial hit and tick hit ICD are shared. Yes they are: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1070101057058906222 https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069716928958050304
¤ [Done] Show that the ICD is 1.5s. To do this, have C1 Zhongli, and in different tests, deploy and hit with a Stele just before and just after 1.5s after having hit with the first Stele to show that the former doesn't generate any particles while the latter does.
¤ [Done] Show that the ICD is hitlag-extendable. hallelujah we somehow did it
: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1100505092127461517kolibri's info: https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069714138084941914
Particle generation rate:
¤ [Done] 1 Stele.
¤ [Done] 1 Stele and 1 Construct.
¤ [Done] 1 Stele and 2 Constructs.
¤ [Done] Recount the total number of waves in the sheet.
Particle generation rate with desynced pillars:
¤ [Done] (C1) 2 Steles.
¤ [Done] (C1) 2 Steles and 1 Construct.
Co-op tests:
¤ [Done] Show that differen't Zhonglis don't share particle generation ICD.
General:
¤ [Done] Statistical analysis of the generation rates (I'll do them once everything else's done
).
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 07:53 PM
Guess I'll ping @( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | Casdela because of the earlier offer
Also I wasn't interested lol. But I guess since I'm here I might as well help a tiny bit.
ena6013Mon, January 30, 2023 at 08:16 PM
all lies pillow just tries to bait ppl to summon ZL pillars in certain regions of the world that will from a complicated summon circle to call in demons invasion! 
2
2mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:18 PM
I'm just using geo slimes
easier
Can't be bothered to upload to YouTube. Someone else can do it
Let me count the particles
15 particles
matches 50%
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:20 PM
uh... it's hitting multiple enemies
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:21 PM
that doesn't matter
the only thing that increases generation is more resonance as far as I'm aware
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:22 PM
btw, this is what we'll try to prove
- initial stele hit does particle check (goes on 1.5 cd applied to zhongli, hitlag extendable, gens 1 particle with 50% chance)https://discord.com/channels/845087716541595668/869210750596554772/1069577599044562974
-on every stele tick: first attack (usually stele attack, could also be a resonance attack from another construct if stele attack doesn't hit anything) that hits an enemy does the particle check as described above. this means 1 chance at generating a particle per stele tick assuming it's not on cd already
there's currently no recorded evidence for it, but the above should be true
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:23 PM
can't view the link
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:24 PM
in gcsim discord server
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:24 PM
ah okay
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:25 PM
but yeah the gcsim part doest matter atm (but it was what sparked this whole thing, since apprently zl has been bugged in gcsim this whole time)
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:25 PM
so for first one, I can just have a pillar resonance generate a particle, and then assuming cooldown, if I drop a pillar immediately after to hit an enemy, the ICD should be there and I won't get anything
Is that what you want to see?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:26 PM
i guess that'd be needed to conclude initial hit particle icd is shared, yes
wait a sec i'll add more on the todo list
how would you test it tho, we dont have sac spear 
need gamblers or abyss card
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:30 PM
and yeah from the discussions in gcsim, this apparently isnt the case 
, which we'll need to prove here
, which we'll need to prove heremustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:33 PM
Test it like this. Wait for particle, drop pillar. Particle doesn't happen even if you repeat it 20x.
and then I guess proving that pillar drop can generate a particle.
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:35 PM
smart. alright. that was 5 attempts, should be good enough i hope 
1
1mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:58 PM
And I think 5-6 is a good number to show that more enemies doesn't make more particles. I got 17 here across two pillars. one was invisible but you could hear it.
unleashurgeekMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:59 PM
super dumb sanity check: can you also verify that particles continue to generate when zhongli is off-field
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:59 PM
kyle they do 
unleashurgeekMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:59 PM
its not explict anywhere im worried 
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 08:59 PM
Well I guess that kazuha video shows that
1
1Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:00 PM
i dont think there's any particle generation mechanic in-game that checks for on-field
unleashurgeekMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:00 PM
oh it do
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:00 PM
except for fav
which is from weapons so it doesnt count
unleashurgeekMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:00 PM
the problem is if it happens implicitly/internally w how the internal configs are defined + general 🍝
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:05 PM
Albedo doesn't generate anything here because he needs to deal damage so everything is Zhongli
Only 14 here
Maybe more constructs doesn't do anything after all
Let me try 3
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:07 PM
yep, that should be the expected conclusion we'll test just in case
we'll test just in casealso yeah i can upload these to youtube
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:12 PM
Got 19 here
Let me try again
IDK why I just don't use Geo MC. Oh well
21
okay maybe it does lol
let me get geo mc
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:19 PM
✿.｡.:* 𝓁𝒶𝓉𝒾 | 𝒦𝒜𝒱𝐸𝐸𝐸𝐸𝐻𝐻𝐻 *.:｡.✿Mon, January 30, 2023 at 09:29 PM
I was messaging Markoda about something that got missed in the basic mechanics ticket from back then. It is obvious but not recorded down, I suppose, that it doesn't necessarily have to be his pillar's pulses that hit enemies to generate particles, but another construct's pulses count even if the initial pillar pulses can't reach. Might as well add that in for completion?
I was messaging Markoda about something that got missed in the basic mechanics ticket from back then. It is obvious but not recorded down, I suppose, that it doesn't necessarily have to be his pillar's pulses that hit enemies to generate particles, but another construct's pulses count even if the initial pillar pulses can't reach. Might as well add that in for completion?Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:30 PM
yeah it's in here
not in the todo list tho
✿.｡.:* 𝓁𝒶𝓉𝒾 | 𝒦𝒜𝒱𝐸𝐸𝐸𝐸𝐻𝐻𝐻 *.:｡.✿Mon, January 30, 2023 at 09:31 PM
If I have the time I'll grab a video if possible, had been meaning to add that
If I have the time I'll grab a video if possible, had been meaning to add thatGood luck with this!
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:35 PM
I got 10 here with one stele because I need to purposely lower GMC ER so I can check the burst energy in case I miss something. But this falls in line with the other two tests at 3 constructs giving extra
Maybe my 2 construct test was just bad rng and lower particles
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:39 PM
oh dear we'll need to do more tests to make sure
i'll make a sheet first
mustproceedquicklyMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:42 PM
16 this time
maybe rate doesn't go up until you get 3
in order to "balance" C1 zhongli
so for him placing 2 pillars wouldn't generate extra, but 2 pillars and then an extra construct would start giving bonus
This is pure copium thinking2
2Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:44 PM
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iKkx5FI6RiihCsPHMpXENQIW9l_DBHNbRFPHme7bRq4/edit?usp=sharing editing is public, for now at least. feel free to add your counts here.
Zhongli particle generation mechancis
Sheet1
Situation,Number of waves that generated a particle,Number of waves that did not generate a particle,Total number of waves,Evidence link
1 Stele,X,X,X,https://discord.com/channels/7635834527...
Situation,Number of waves that generated a particle,Number of waves that did not generate a particle,Total number of waves,Evidence link
1 Stele,X,X,X,https://discord.com/channels/7635834527...
TiBotMon, January 30, 2023 at 09:52 PM
@Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping added @mustproceedquickly as contributor
is_this_maddieTue, January 31, 2023 at 02:53 AM
the goddamn basic mechanics ticket made a return1
1
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 04:55 AM
to prove the 1.5s cd, youre gonna need a c1 zhongli
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 08:32 AM
the neverending zhongli tickets
hmge how do we test hitlag-extendability
have zhongli be hit by spinning mitachurl while his stele is hitting it and count particles?
since the stele tick is 1.5s, hitlag should desync the timers and generate less particles, i assume
well, i guess unless the stele tick rate gets extended the same amount 
not sure about that part. someone more familiar with hitlag can help
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:50 AM
isnt it 2s?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:50 AM
oh
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:50 AM
yea thats why i said u need c1 to test the cd
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:52 AM
oh yes it's 2s. i even recorded stele tick rates a while back, smh i forgor1
1oh and, is the tick rate hitlag-extendable?@f99shi
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:54 AM
it shouldnt be?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:54 AM
are gadgets/turrets like that, in general
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:54 AM
its a from a separate entity
so probably not
although im not sure if enemy hits can extend it
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:56 AM
ok. and kolibri said that the particle icd should be applied to zl and should be hitlag-extendable. does that happen when zhongli hits an enemy or vice versa?
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:56 AM
no idea
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:00 AM
for things like burst cooldowns that are hitlag-extendable, say itto burst, does the extension happen both when itto hits an opponent, and when he gets hit?
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:00 AM
should be both
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:02 AM
welp anyway, the hitlag test isnt neccessary atm the weird thing is 2+ constructs seemingly produce more particles. we need more datapoints 1
the weird thing is 2+ constructs seemingly produce more particles. we need more datapoints 1🍝1
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:04 AM
can you tell me what you to test with Zhongli C1?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:10 AM
we need desynced pillars to show that there exists a particle icd that isn't just per pillar wave, but per 1.5s
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 12:50 PM
I know it was already mentioned for itto burst, but hitlag extension works both ways for other things too. It was tested for the extra EC ticks thing with the enemies hitting you.
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:13 PM
@Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimping uhh this is super weird but I swear at 0:19 to 0:20 the particles spawn only 62f apart-1.03s
now I even see only 53f apart-0.88s 
at 0:06
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:32 PM
you're counting the spawn time, and not the energy reaching zl time, right?
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:32 PM
yeah
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:33 PM
why did i get involved in this
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:33 PM
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:35 PM
have you done any total particle counts to see if desynced steles produce more particles in general?
well, i guess they should, since 2s > 1.5s
but yeah it being less than 1.5s in unexpected..
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:37 PM
just base on those 2 clip or do you need more?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:49 PM
honestly the enemy movement and the particle origin is vague here. i'm not super convinced here
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:49 PM
this, however, seems better
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:50 PM
i think we need to repeat this test more times
the conclusion i drew from it ("initial and tick icd are shared") currently has a 3% chance of being wrong cuz we only did 5 checks
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 03:56 PM
btw from what i can see, pillar particles originate from the base of the stele . however in 19s here, the first particle seemed to come from far away
. however in 19s here, the first particle seemed to come from far away ( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 04:00 PM
I got 6 particles over the span of 23.75s, 1.43s desync
8 particles - 23.3s, 1.06s desync in 1st clip I sent( also the clip with 1.03s particle spawn)
5 particles - 24.4s, 0.9s desync in 2nd clip (clip with 0.88s, there is a whole 7s of no particles in that clip with 2 seeles ), this one is probably because of bad rng
8 particles - 23.3s, 1.06s desync in 1st clip I sent( also the clip with 1.03s particle spawn)
5 particles - 24.4s, 0.9s desync in 2nd clip (clip with 0.88s, there is a whole 7s of no particles in that clip with 2 seeles
), this one is probably because of bad rngI might try lower desync time to see if the particles can spawn even closer together
honestly the particle spawn rate for 2 seeles is even worst than just 1 seele
4 particles - 20.2s, 1.17s desync
4 particles - 20.2s, 1.17s desync
5 particles - 22.3s, 1.45s desync
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 04:30 PMso many recordings, i'm getting dizzy 
feel free to add the counts to the pinned excel (it's public)
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 04:31 PM
7 particles- 20.6s, 1.2s desync
( ˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶ ) <3 | CasdelaTue, January 31, 2023 at 04:32 PM
me too you aren't special
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 09:23 PM
I'm listening for the particle sound and not looking for it flying. I think if you do that it still fits.
Let me try to explain using the vids in question
Also the high ping is making it weird
Let me try to brute force an anomaly
dang no net limiter. Disconnecting isn't working the way I want
I think we should from this point on disable music and enable sound effects only
Anyway here is 3.5 minutes of me placing pillar immediately after a wave (particle or not) because it's easier than me accidentally not noticing a particle and then placing late and then the 1.5 seconds goes by and I get confused. Anyway, no particles back to back
Casdela's ping is so high that the particle sometimes doesn't generate until the wave is already over. Take a look at the first 10 seconds here. Especially the 8-10 second range with the 2 particles super close back to back on a single stele in a single resonance before the 2nd one is made. https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/1069705039054127164/1069998753546776578
and then compare it to some of my videos where the wave and the particle happen almost at the same time
Also I accidentally killed a geo slime by drowning it1
1Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:33 PM
okay thanks, that should be solid proof that initial hit and tick icd are shared, and stele icd are shared
and yeah... considering the ~180 ping, it may lead to unexpected results 
sorry casdela
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:34 PM
can a vpn lower ping?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:36 PM
yes. i used that to test some high ping stuff a while back
oh in my case it was increasing it
but i've also seen a person lower their ping with vpn so it may work
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 10:37 PM
Maybe we can ask someone to share credentials to a VPN so casdela can log in and get a better ping
I don't use one so I can't help there
I also don't know how good the free ones are
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:13 PM
hmge does this all mean the particle icd check and particle generation are not on the same side? which one's client and server then?
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:13 PM
particle gen is server side. If you disconnect, you don't get any at all
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:14 PM
ok. it makes sense that the check and icd are client, and generation is server
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:15 PM
I assume ICD check is also server side as well because how would it know that you are on cooldown if you can't generate particles?
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:15 PM
which would mean... if you had very high lag and the pillars hit multiple times during the lag, when you "reconnect" to the server, would lots of particles be generated at once? 🤔
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:15 PM
Nothing generates at all
oh wait high lag isn't the same as disconnected
IDK how high lag works
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:16 PM
hmkay... how do we explain casedla's <1.5s generstion then
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:17 PM
maybe it's like the server acknowledges that it should create a particle, but doesn't send it back expediently, and then while it's waiting to send it back, it got another request for particle, and sends it on time, then you get both at once
There were a few ping fluctuations during the videos, but I don't really know how it all works together. We really need someone with like 30 or less lol
I guess we can sort of "guess" by looking at the particles and then seeing when the wave happened and then count from there even if nothing shows up until 2 seconds later
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:21 PM
if the particles per second remains constant even if the generation intervals are sometimes a bit funky due to ping/lag/whatever, then i dont think we need to investigate this too much
unless we can show that high ping or lag causes less particles generated overall
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:24 PM
I can sort of show that with Ning and her jade screen1
1So Ning ICD on particle gen is 6 seconds
While disconnected, I wait like 8 seconds and use one screen, then use another after another 8 seconds. Only get particles once.
For some reason zhongli generates nothing while no internet
Oh I guess I can just use anyone.
Here is bennett.
wait does bennett have some weird ICD?
let me double sac sword or something
I know Sucrose does if you do her E too quickly if you dash cancel
maybe the game counts both E at the same time so they have ICD and only generate once
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:34 PM
checked wiki and tcl, doesnt seem to be the case
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:36 PMOh wait I finally got a geo particle from zhongli while disconnected (after reconnecting). Maybe I just kept having bad luck.1
Does it specifically mention if there is or is not ICD?
Something like this
1Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:40 PM
i think that's just a sucrose bug, nothing universal
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:40 PM
Oh wait I didn't1
1it was just the resonance hitting after reconnecting
and then it gave me one
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:41 PM
lol
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:41 PM
but it shows the crit particles from floor 7 disorder
f99shiTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:41 PM
bennett press E particle gen has 0.3s, hold E has 1.5s, separate1
👍1
1mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:41 PM
Yeah that's what I needed to know
so the game probably treats all the hits offline as at the same time
so you only get one set
except it treats floor 7 differently
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:42 PM
is there any skill that has no particle icd?
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:43 PM
oh I should try tap e and then hold to see if I get two sets
👍1
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:43 PM
wonder what'd happen if you stacked such skills and reconnected
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:43 PM
rip only one set
for bennett
RIP wasn't recording. Let me do it again
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:46 PM
what happens with different characters?
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:46 PM
can't swap while disconnected1
1Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:47 PMare we supposed to not mind the slow but sure scope creep in this ticket
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:48 PM
Oh wait maybe I do get the particles but they are invisible
Take a look at my energy
it's almost full
now look at when I do this
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:50 PM
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:52 PM
and then look when I do this
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:54 PM
what lmao he regenerated energy when he hit?
he regenerated energy when he hit?or was that just timing coincidence
mustproceedquicklyTue, January 31, 2023 at 11:54 PM
No I meant that the 2 and 2 particles were perfectly overlapped from tap E and hold E so it only looked like two
and if you look at the video here
you can see that two tap E gives the same energy as the disconnected video
I mean it raises it to the same amount
but I guess we already knew that from fooshi's data that bennett tap and hold have different ICD
so it makes sense they both genned
let me try a different character
Okay here is Kaeya.
So while disconnected, unless you have two different E or something, you can only get one set of particles.
Oh I can force super high ping while uploading a video.
Let me try something
But you can see the difference high ping makes with particles
and then it screws up our timings
For this vid, the wave at 5 seconds looks like it generates 2 geo particles because of how long it takes
unleashurgeekWed, February 1, 2023 at 12:12 AM
yeah because modifier is added based off damage, you'll need to wait for the ack response before the modifier can be added and particle generated
let's say you rtt delay is X and you have stele damage event at time T. Your client will not receive the ack and start the particle gen logic until time
So if X is sufficiently large enough, this can result in the 1.5s icd still being up when the next stele tick occurs, resulting in a net loss of particles
let's say you rtt delay is X and you have stele damage event at time T. Your client will not receive the ack and start the particle gen logic until time
T + X. At this point, the modifier will be added, particle generated, and 1.5s icd startsSo if X is sufficiently large enough, this can result in the 1.5s icd still being up when the next stele tick occurs, resulting in a net loss of particles
mustproceedquicklyWed, February 1, 2023 at 12:16 AM
Oh interesting. I think I know why zhongli doesn't generate particles while disconnected like the other characters. Apparently the steles don't create damage numbers at all
but if you look at the bennett videos, all the damage numbers show up after reconnecting
it's not like an immune thing, because those generate. They just don't show numbers even though they can somehow crystallize and lower HP
🍝
very strange
Zhongli steles still do "invisible" damage but it got healed. Let me hit the other guy instead
TLDR: invisible damage can't generate particles.1
1The hold E shield create can do damage while disconnected after reconnecting but since there is no pillar it doesn't generate particles
Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingWed, February 1, 2023 at 12:42 AM
oh wow this is truly cursed spaghetti 🍝
🍝Mr. Pillow | PhD. in IttoSimpingWed, February 1, 2023 at 12:44 AM
can i interpret this as "zhongli has special mechanics that fucks with high ping ppl"
i wonder what other chars have this invisible dmg too
if any
best place to start testing would be other turret users i guess
mustproceedquicklyWed, February 1, 2023 at 12:51 AM
Beyond the scope of this ticket, but Oz does damage when it reconnects
Oh wait he doesn't
just the cast does
but the bullets don't
and A4 doesn't
So maybe everything that isn't directly from the character
Yep just checked Guoba. Also invisible
and no particles
Oh interestingly Kuki deals damage but not particles
so I guess it's not a thing having to do with invisible damage
maybe it's just all summons
that won't generate anything
but if you are a summon, you also deal invisible damage