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KQM | Genshin Impact
tick-tock
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Ticket ToolThu, April 21, 2022 at 09:26 PM
@Tibot - As an author, it is your responsibility to complete the ticket

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Write-up Format
Theory/Finding/Bug: Title of your submission

Evidence: Explanations with calculations and/or Youtube/Imgur proofs

Significance: Conclusion
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TibotThu, April 21, 2022 at 09:26 PM
first
Theory 1: There's a maximum of around ~98ms of time being ticked per frame

Evidence: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/182KPzD5g2ThH1vIB9VNTYBt7UmY6T_kW23Z6YZhqZMk/edit?usp=sharing

Significance: Understanding how the game works at extremely low frame rates or during lagspikes
:keqhmm: it seems to be around 98ms per frame based on that it increases to 10.2s at 10 FPS

I'm currently timing a 97ms frametime and a 99ms frametime

and it's ~10s for the 97ms frametime and ~10.1s for the 99ms ones :artesians:
this is so cursed :artesians:
unknown.png
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is_this_maddieThu, April 21, 2022 at 11:13 PM
:artesians:
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TibotThu, April 21, 2022 at 11:16 PM
Theory 2: Timers can only start at 0 on ticks; does not carry over lateness

Evidence:
Using Zhongli pillar at different frame rates, looking at resonance ticks

Expected to last 30 seconds and resonate every 2 seconds, starting after ~2.1 seconds after CD text starts.

Actual resonances happen slightly faster at 60 fps for some reason. Lower frame rates resonate the frame after 2 second mark (except for frame rates that reach frame time cap).
After a tick, the timer resets to 0, without taking the lateness of the frame of the tick into account for the next tick

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/182KPzD5g2ThH1vIB9VNTYBt7UmY6T_kW23Z6YZhqZMk/edit#gid=630579272

Significance: A theory for the common "60 vs 30" fps difference that's common; despawn timers gets out of sync with the DoT timers, causing the amount of times that it triggers to be less at lower fps
Doing some more specific frame rate tests: (might be inconsistent, only did one test per)

<=16.8ms per frame triggers it 15 times
>=16.9ms per frame triggers it 14 times

EDIT: This seemed to be inconsistent at these frame rates
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nzpiefaceFri, April 22, 2022 at 10:08 AM
@Tibot dont forget theres two types of time, menu time and world time. menu time continues to work in inventory etc, but world time is frozen in those screens
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 10:10 AM
just two?
:clueless:
I feel like there's time per entity as well (since hitlag changes timescale for some duration)

I haven't tested if #950018805025873940's 20 seconds time passes in menu, gonna do that after my lecture
since those 20 seconds weren't affected by the frame time cap, it seems to be menu time?
There should def be more types of time since there's also stuff extended by hitlag (some timers) / not (for example; cooldown)
Currently thinking there's:
- Real time (follow irl time, will pass while paused/in menu/ignores hitlag/game is closed): For example, gadget cooldowns
- Game time (ignores hitlag): For example, skill cooldowns
- Entity time (w/ hitlag): For example, skills

Need to test if healing food is a fourth type (real time but without frametime limit; I believe it might be since it didn't count food menu being open time, unless timer only started at first game time tick after unpause?)

Also, is entity time the same for all or only for ones affected by hitlag?
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 12:25 PM
Some more testing: at other locations this cut-off might be at a different time https://youtu.be/ouPvvpxSg0Q has 15 ticks while also being 59 FPS
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paichlearFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:46 PM
this is indeed cursed :artesians: lmk if you want anything pinned
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paichlearFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:51 PM
oh btw make sure to copypaste the actual messages over because we don't know when 100k tickets are getting deleted
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:52 PM
Are they actually getting deleted? Aren't the ones eligible to be added to library?
(I intend on changing it to either library link when it's added or transcript if stays at that; got a backup of writeup saved somewhere / I have spreadsheet anyways)
since channel links don't work in transcripts so need to change anyway later
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paichlearFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:55 PM
every ticket gets deleted after being added to the library though
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:57 PM
but if it's library I could just link that :keqhmm:
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paichlearFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:57 PM
not sure which ones are getting into the library and which ones aren't yet :HuTaoWorry:
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:58 PM
I just did another holy water test and it's even more cursed :artesians:
22 HP gained
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paichlearFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:59 PM
good luck :E_KEKpat:
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 01:59 PM
well, not looking into that now, was just for different types of time
but yes, food is indeed a fourth type :artesians:
Theory 3: There are different (at least 4) ways the game keeps track of time

Evidence:

Real time:
Follows real time without looking at FPS/lag/pausing/the game being open
Example: Gadget cooldowns
Evidence: The 6d22h cooldown of the Parametric Transformer would be a huge pain otherwise
https://youtu.be/fCtMDH7AFfI
Includes Kamera pausing in co-op before 2.8 https://youtu.be/xUbUWGzmVKo

Cursed time:
Almost follows real time (disregarding max time per frame cap), but does pause while game is paused/in menu and can run while you are logging in into the game
Example: healing food, food cooldowns
Evidence:
- Does pause while game is paused https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su7Itye024A
- But not in co-op w/ Kamera pause before 2.8 https://youtu.be/xUbUWGzmVKo
- Does not follow max frame time https://youtu.be/1ZJnPUpj9iQ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OOoZ2Z1jX583HLZv-TSeg0CFJsWfcv1lFVKCpxKDb7E/edit#gid=0
- Runs while logging in into the game
- Initial food usage + relog on PC (119s -> 109s): https://youtu.be/jBlSF0CLaTI
- Laptop login (109 -> 22): https://youtu.be/q7h_Erv-jro
- Logging back in on desktop (22 -> 15): https://youtu.be/tDAmjw-Bp5E

Food cooldown timers start ticking around when you have a connection with the server, this is around when the UID shows up in UI (if you just logged in; or updates if you changed server; generally slightly after clicking on the door) and between the 7 elements start showing up; so the time reduction depends on your system. These times would be classified as "cursed time" since it doesn't care about fps, which can be seen in the second vid where game freezes and still having 87s being passed (not taking max time per frame into account)

The exact moment can better be described as when you "take over the world", indicated by the "Account has logged in on another device"; which is shown in last video
Game time:
The time that passes in-universe, does get paused by menus when not in co-op, does have a max time that can get processed per frame. But it also does not get affected by hitlag. This can alternatively be explained as Entity Time on an entity that doesn't get hitlagged.
Example: Skill cooldowns
Evidence:
- Max time per frame https://youtu.be/P10o7Sc09zw https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/182KPzD5g2ThH1vIB9VNTYBt7UmY6T_kW23Z6YZhqZMk/edit#gid=0
- Does not follow hitlag https://youtu.be/apChAKi-mvA (CD number is visible from 5.967s and goes invisible at 15.95s (9.983s))
- https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/combat-mechanics/frames#hitlag-extension-caveats

Entity time:
The time that passes for an entity/the player, gets paused by menus when not in co-op, does have a max time that can get processed per frame, and it also gets affected by hitlag that gets applied to said entity. (Not global, unique per enemy/the player)
Example: Skills which duration get extended by hitlag (eg: not deployables), elemental auras
Evidence:
- https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/combat-mechanics/frames#normal-attack-hitlag-can-extend-skill-burst-duration
- Hitlag is per entity https://youtu.be/3E3R_VEL2UA

Conclusion holy fuck this game is cursed
This split could potentially be abused even further in the future
I believe Entity time and Game time might just be the same thing; just that those timers are not on an "entity" that can get hitlagged, but for sake of clarity prob best to keep them separate
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*dial up internet noises*Fri, April 22, 2022 at 03:21 PM
I have a few holy Waters sored, doyou want me to do anything with them?
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 03:25 PM
I did quite some tests with holy water; most cursed one was the recent one with pausing, which healed for even more than regular 60 FPS
could maybe see how bad it can go if you spam pause? :pepela:
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*dial up internet noises*Fri, April 22, 2022 at 05:21 PM
so drink then keep spamming open/close for inventory?
is it okay in 30fps?
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 05:26 PM
I don't think I have tested regular at 30 fps ingame; but from https://discord.com/channels/763583452762734592/966812234334474371/966812777819807744 it should be same duration; although the 1s ticks might be slower :keqhmm:
recording fps doesn't matter though
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*dial up internet noises*Fri, April 22, 2022 at 05:34 PM
oh okay
then I should be able to do 60
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beastboy197Fri, April 22, 2022 at 08:29 PM
Is this the real use for holy water?
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TibotFri, April 22, 2022 at 08:30 PM
holy water is just cursed water, heals anywhere between 2 HP and 23 HP :artesians:
I just healed 35 HP from a single holy water :artesians:
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RavenSat, April 23, 2022 at 01:30 PM
wtf
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TibotSat, April 23, 2022 at 01:35 PM
I'm gonna try the different pause buffers individually to see which did the most healing extension
Since that 35 used some different pause spams
I'm doing one with macro, already more than 40 HP :artesians:
This is actually cursed :artesians:
How long do I need to run it to show that it's a long time
I'm over 100HP from one atm
It's supposed to only last 20 seconds, with pause spam it should advance like 1/60th every pause/unpause?
So 20 minutes if pause/unpause once per second but I do more :keqhmm: so it doesn't even advance 1/60th on the duration timer
30 minutes should be enough
:keqhmm:
170 HP from one holy water :artesians:
163 HP during 30 minutes pause buffering + 7 HP after I ended it and let game run normally
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paichlearSat, April 23, 2022 at 02:06 PM
maybe holy water is infinite :artesians:
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TibotSat, April 23, 2022 at 02:07 PM
it did pass some time since it didn't heal like 19 after running normally
I should check if other food is affected
the problem with other food is that it regenerates once every 5 seconds so it'll take longer per tick
The cursed-time of them is also longer in general (30s vs 20s)
Well it'll take a while to upload but I'll just post link already :artesians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk7nN2lJhG0
Theory 4: Game time and cursed time can get out of sync when pause spamming

Evidence
Spamming pause (by opening a menu) and closes it again while under the effect of Holy Water healing causes the healing timer to tick more than normally possible.
Videos:
- 170 HP Holy Water - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk7nN2lJhG0
- 1 HP -> 56.6k HP using a single Delicious Invigorating Kitty Meal - https://youtu.be/1gB9PBp-Emk / (sped up: https://youtu.be/eBgNo9Q18pg)
- 60 fps - https://youtu.be/N6QnWMfnze4 by Puffin#9920

Possible explanation: these two types of timers have a different "is game paused" check that starts/stops at different points (maybe at different moments within the same frame?)

Significance: Adding another thing to the pile of "pause game spam" bugs + possible explanation

:artesians: this is cursed
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*dial up internet noises*Sat, April 23, 2022 at 02:32 PM
Does this work with other heal over time food like radish soup??
wait lemme test rq
Okay list of all heal over time food, not including special dishes:
Apple cider
Bamboo shoot soup
Berry Mizu Manju
Blach Bakc Perch Stew
Crispy potato shrimp
Crystal Shrimp
dango milk
Flaming red bolognaise
Invigorating Kitty meal
Miso soup
Mushroom pizza
Onigiri
Pop's teas
Radish veggie soup
Soba noodles
Special Mushroom pizza (Kimini Ana?)
Stir fried fish noodles
Taiyaki
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TibotSat, April 23, 2022 at 02:39 PM
I plan on testing one of them when I go afk to eat so it can run for a bit
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*dial up internet noises*Sat, April 23, 2022 at 02:43 PM
https://youtu.be/3jCi6u0GEBk Here's the radish soup 60fps
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TibotSat, April 23, 2022 at 04:30 PM
Full 1HP -> 56.5kHP using single Delicious Invigorating Kitty Meal
https://youtu.be/1gB9PBp-Emk (uploading)
18-28-28.jpg
18-28-31.jpg
18-28-07.jpg
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Spacebarium | uwoghSun, April 24, 2022 at 11:44 AM
can this by any means be related to the stove superjump
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TibotSun, April 24, 2022 at 11:54 AM
That's the reason why I used the stove, but initially the start cook -> go back took a really long time before it even healed 1 HP so I didn't test it for long
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Spacebarium | uwoghSun, April 24, 2022 at 12:02 PM
oh i didn't watch the vid lol my bad
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TibotSun, May 1, 2022 at 10:31 PM
List of write-ups here


Originally intended to do some co-op testing, but leaving this as an exercise for the reader:
What happens with enemies (attack cooldowns? gauges? etc) when one player has 1 FPS vs others have 60 FPS; hypothesis: one user "controls" said enemy based on who spawned it? / host?; this comes from previous experience in co-op with laggy players where damage would get queued up until the host/laggy player catches up, despite myself having low ping

However, I do not have the time (and willingness to test that level of cursedness) to do these tests in the coming weeks and I don't want to keep this ticket open; the stuff that's already done can get checked by others


Good luck to the monkies that are gonna try to verify this :artesians:
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Ticket ToolSun, May 1, 2022 at 10:31 PM
Ticket Closed by @Tibot
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nzpiefaceMon, May 2, 2022 at 09:21 PM
oh
i forgot to ask
@Tibot are there any things in game time which do continue to countdown when logged out?
also, can you explain why cooldowns on using foods have a constant time reduction when quitting and logging back in?
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Ticket ToolMon, May 2, 2022 at 11:45 PM
Ticket Opened by @708350147062399017
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TibotMon, May 2, 2022 at 11:53 PM
I don't believe game time timers are being stored while being fully logged out; skill cooldowns reset (tested with Barbara; logged back in <27 seconds, didn't have cooldown left
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TibotMon, May 2, 2022 at 11:53 PM
Food cooldown timers start ticking around when you have a connection with the server, this is around when the UID shows up in UI (if you just logged in; or updates if you changed server; generally slightly after clicking on the door) and between the 7 elements start showing up; so the time reduction depends on your system. These times would be classified as "cursed time" since it doesn't care about fps, which can be seen in the second vid where game freezes and still having 87s being passed (not taking max time per frame into account, Windows' "not responding" hides mouse from obs capture)

The exact moment can better be described as when you "take over the world", indicated by the "Account has logged in on another device"; which is shown in last video

Initial food usage + relog on PC (119s -> 109s): https://youtu.be/jBlSF0CLaTI
Laptop login (109 -> 22): https://youtu.be/q7h_Erv-jro
Logging back in on desktop (22 -> 15): https://youtu.be/tDAmjw-Bp5E

Desktop was controlled with remote desktop so there should only be around a 1-2 frame delay compared to game on laptop (and not manually synced video)
Added it to "types of time" as well
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Ticket ToolMon, May 2, 2022 at 11:55 PM
Ticket Closed by @Tibot
Support team ticket controls
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paichlearWed, May 25, 2022 at 02:18 AM
verified
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TiBotThu, June 30, 2022 at 10:40 AM
Ticket re-opened by @Tibot
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 10:40 AM
Reopened - gonna work on this
but it's also possible with FPS limiting - which might be a more permanent option
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nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
wait
actually
time doesnt move right when frozen
can you test all the timers again
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
what frozen
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nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
like food
and gadget cd
etc
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
which kind of frozen
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nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
time as in the bug through kamera
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:40 PM
that's just like pausing
gadget cd shouldn't be affected since it's real time
food is cursed, not touching that
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nzpiefaceThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:41 PM
:keqOMEGALUL:
no
your problem
go touch it
the ticket is called tick tock
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 12:41 PM
le me first finish my writeup for coop
:pepela:
Theory 5: Entities have a "ticking" player bound to them in co-op

Evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtc8QIKx7TU
Test 1: P1 loads enemy and uses Kamera to pause game while P2 joins and applies element - enemy aura gets extended past intended duration, only stops after continuing game (46 seconds in video) (note: Kamera bug is fixed in 2.8)
Test 2: P1 loads enemy and limits FPS while P2 applies element - enemy aura gets extended past intended duration, will most likely stop after a while since game still runs, just at a slower speed (48s in video)
Test 3: P1 loads enemy while P2 limits FPS and applies element - enemy aura stops after ~9.9s (expected 9.5s)
Test 4: P2 loads enemy, limits FPS and applies element - enemy aura gets extended past intended duration, (19s in video while expected 9.5s)

Significance: Entity time depends on the player who is ticking said enemy, which might not always be the same player as the world host.
Allows easier abuse of stacking debuffs on enemy since duration doesn't expire.
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aeveanleeowThu, June 30, 2022 at 05:32 PM
speaking of time
tibo its time to stop :despair:
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TibotThu, June 30, 2022 at 05:33 PM
ok
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TiBotThu, June 30, 2022 at 05:33 PM
Ticket closed by @Tibot. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.
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aeveanleeowThu, June 30, 2022 at 05:33 PM
nooooo
if you keep going on you will literal summon elder gods
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*dial up internet noises*Fri, July 1, 2022 at 08:56 AM
you're the one saying that??
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TiBotWed, July 13, 2022 at 06:42 PM
Ticket re-opened by @Tibot
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TibotWed, July 13, 2022 at 06:42 PM
2.8 update time
:WICKED:
Updated stuff to specify that Kamera bug is fxied
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TiBotWed, July 13, 2022 at 06:43 PM
Ticket closed by @Tibot. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.
Ticket re-opened by @Tibot
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TibotThu, July 21, 2022 at 10:04 PM
Replaced transcription link of 100k ticket
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TiBotThu, July 21, 2022 at 10:04 PM
Ticket closed by @Tibot. If there are any issues with it - it can be reopened by the owner or staff by using the buttons below or /open.
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TiBotThu, August 11, 2022 at 08:51 AM
Created transcript!
:hellawicked: Transcription has been made and is available on https://tickets.deeznuts.moe/transcripts/tick-tock - Fetched a total of 133 messages!
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nzpiefaceFri, August 12, 2022 at 01:26 AM
@Tibot uh bot died
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itzsomebody | chrisFri, August 12, 2022 at 10:28 AM
ya tibo saw it
right @Leah? :KEKpat:
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LeahFri, August 12, 2022 at 12:55 PM
:kleekicant:
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rarepossumThu, October 13, 2022 at 10:02 AM
its been 2 months, can mod manually move this to ready for publishing or whatever
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nzpiefaceThu, October 13, 2022 at 11:52 AM
:keqomegalul:
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effab1eThu, October 13, 2022 at 12:56 PM
@Tibot
modCheck
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rarepossumThu, October 13, 2022 at 12:57 PM
Nvm that I thought it was verified it wasn't
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TiBotFri, October 14, 2022 at 04:27 PM
Ticket verified by @paichlear
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nzpiefaceSun, October 23, 2022 at 10:18 AM
oh wtf pai
:keqomegalul:
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TiBotWed, November 2, 2022 at 05:24 PM
Ticket verified by @itzsomebody | chris
Creating transcript...